DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum > Appliances > General Appliance Discussion > Dishwasher or Supplemental Water Heater?




Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-14-2009, 12:48 PM  
RickR
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: FtWorth
Posts: 14
Default Dishwasher or Supplemental Water Heater?

Hello,

I looked through some of the threads here and you look like a bright bunch, so here's my question.

I have a very poor floorplan in my house, which results in the kitchen sink/dishwasher being caddy-corner from the water heater. The full run for the piping goes from the water heater in the garage, up the internal wall, through the attic, down the external wall on the opposite side of the house, then finally into the kitchen. This results in two major problems:
1) It takes a lonnnnnnng time for hot water to reach the kitchen.
2) As the weather outside gets colder, the water in the lines cools down during the dishwasher's wash cycle. So even if I run the sink to get hot water to the kitchen prior to running the dishwasher, by the time it runs the rinse cycle it is using cool water again.

So my question is this, should I be looking at a new dishwasher with internal temperature controls/monitoring? Or should I be shopping for a supplemental tankless/small-tank water heater for in the kitchen? And do you have a suggestion for the best model of whichever you propose?

Thank you so much!



__________________
RickR is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-14-2009, 05:47 PM  
travelover
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 693
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

The simplest solution would be a dishwasher with its own heater. I can't recommend one, but you might find something at Consumer Reports or similar at the library (they have back issues).

The small local water heater would work, too, but would take up space under the counter and waste electricity when not needed. Too bad you can't insulate the pipes, but I can see where the one in the external wall would be inaccessible. I think a tankless model would be very expensive.

A third alternative is to crank up the temperature on your water heater, but scalding hazard might ensue, as discussed in another thread.



__________________
travelover is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-14-2009, 10:49 PM  
RickR
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: FtWorth
Posts: 14
Default

Earlier I talked to one of the fellas at HD who suggested one of these: WATTS Hot Water Recirculating Pump with Timer - 500800 at The Home Depot

Anyone here have an opinion? It looks easier to install than the mini water heater and cheaper than the high-end dishwasher. I also like the timer feature, so unlike the secondary heater, I could turn this off for 18 hours each day. On the downside, it is the same price as the small water heaters and it doesn't look like top-quality construction.

__________________
RickR is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-15-2009, 12:32 AM  
Nestor_Kelebay
Emperor Penguin
 
Nestor_Kelebay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Posts: 1,844
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Where would be the disadvantage in putting a hole right through the exterior wall of your house so that the water supply line from the heater in the garage to the dish washer would be much shorter?

Also, putting pipe insulation on the water supply pipe between the heater and the dish washer will help tremendously in preventing the hot water from cooling down during the wash cycle.

__________________

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 11-15-2009 at 12:36 AM.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-15-2009, 01:25 PM  
RickR
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: FtWorth
Posts: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestor_Kelebay View Post
Where would be the disadvantage in putting a hole right through the exterior wall of your house so that the water supply line from the heater in the garage to the dish washer would be much shorter?

Also, putting pipe insulation on the water supply pipe between the heater and the dish washer will help tremendously in preventing the hot water from cooling down during the wash cycle.
Putting a hole through the exterior wall would not make the run any shorter. Straight-shot they two are about 120' apart with the dishwasher on the North wall and the heater near the south wall.

I was talking to one of the guys up at HD who suggested this as a possible solution:
WATTS Hot Water Recirculating Pump with Timer - 500800 at The Home Depot

Any opinions on this?
__________________
RickR is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-15-2009, 01:31 PM  
RickR
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: FtWorth
Posts: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestor_Kelebay View Post
Where would be the disadvantage in putting a hole right through the exterior wall of your house so that the water supply line from the heater in the garage to the dish washer would be much shorter?

Also, putting pipe insulation on the water supply pipe between the heater and the dish washer will help tremendously in preventing the hot water from cooling down during the wash cycle.
There would be no advantage to running another line outside the kitchen wall since the dishwasher and heater are at opposite ends of the house. The dishwasher is near the northeast corner of the house and the heater is near the southwest corner of the house. Straight-shot the run is about 120'.

As another alternative, one of the guys at HD suggested the WATTS Hot Water Recirculating Pump. (I would link to it, but the rules forbid it. You can find it by searching "Recirculating" on the Home Depot website.) I'm torn on this product. Cons: it's nearly the price of the small water heaters. It looks cheaply built. Pros: I can install it myself. It has a timer, unlike the water heater. It's cheaper than a new high-end dishwasher.

Any thoughts on the semi-recirculating pump? I guess I should also mention, we nearly don't use cold water, so the delay in cold water wouldn't be an issue.
__________________
RickR is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-15-2009, 03:41 PM  
travelover
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 693
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Nestor is right that insulating the pipe would help a lot and would cost the least. Can you access the line in the overhead run?

Costco has those recirculating pump at a good price - often in the store. Running the pump would cost less in electricity than an electric point source heater.

Costco - Watts Premier Hot Water Recirculation System

__________________

Last edited by travelover; 11-15-2009 at 03:44 PM.
travelover is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-20-2010, 07:19 PM  
Wuzzat?
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,328
Liked 167 Times on 154 Posts
Likes Given: 94

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestor_Kelebay View Post
Where would be the disadvantage in putting a hole right through the exterior wall of your house so that the water supply line from the heater in the garage to the dish washer would be much shorter?

Also, putting pipe insulation on the water supply pipe between the heater and the dish washer will help tremendously in preventing the hot water from cooling down during the wash cycle.
"the only state in the union where "he needed killin" is a legitimate defense in court."

Can you provide a link for this?
__________________
Wuzzat? is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-29-2010, 04:24 AM  
subzero
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 55
Default

The other alternative is to crank up the temperature on your water heater.

__________________
subzero is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-29-2010, 09:28 AM  
Wuzzat?
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,328
Liked 167 Times on 154 Posts
Likes Given: 94

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickR View Post
Or should I be shopping for a supplemental tankless/small-tank water heater for in the kitchen?
A 1 kw tankless heater would raise 1 GPM of water by only 7F.

If you have:
-50' of 1/2" ID pipe full of cold water you'll need a WH with a half gallon tank.
-to raise the temp. of this water by 80 Fahrenheit degrees it will take 100 w-h of energy.
-a half hour before the rinse cycle comes along you'll need a heater with 200 w of power.


__________________

Last edited by Wuzzat?; 01-29-2010 at 05:32 PM.
Wuzzat? is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Tags
dishwasher, heater, hot water, water heater

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter DIY Home Repair Forum Replies Last Post
Dishwasher noise when pumping water out- Frigidaire numbersguy General Appliance Discussion 1 05-18-2009 09:20 AM
can I reuse hot/cold water flex lines on gas water heater? gordon Plumbing Forum 2 12-14-2008 01:16 PM
Hot Water Heater guyod Plumbing Forum 6 01-24-2008 12:57 PM
My Dishwasher KitchenAid not spraying water Raji Elshaer General Appliance Discussion 3 05-14-2007 02:36 PM
New water heater maverick General Appliance Discussion 1 03-29-2006 09:39 AM

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS