Healthcare costs.

[bud16415]

Don't get wrong. I'm not defending the lazy. I wish your successes on everybody. But there are so many other factors. And not everybody at the bottom of the food chain is lazy. You guys are casting a very wide net (a.k.a. generalizing).

Bud: your story illustrates the model of America that we all like to remember. But that model doesn't really exist anymore. The MBAs from Wharton and other "Business Schools" have ensured that. Employees aren't valued anymore. Most every business wants the other guy to develop talent, then they hire that person away (I am also generalizing, but there are few examples of good companies left). And there are plenty of experienced, qualified people out there who can't find work. We only need so many toilet-scrubbers.

It exists fine how can you say that one of the members here is a young guy trying to live the dream and doing it despite the road blocks. Correct me if I’m wrong Chris but I don’t think he has any Wharton Grads on his payroll.

Small business is what is responsible for any growth we are seeing.

You and I live in the NE where we tax companies to death. Go take a look at Texas to see what happens when government gets out of the way.

 

[frodo]

It exists fine how can you say that one of the members here is a young guy trying to live the dream and doing it despite the road blocks. Correct me if I’m wrong Chris but I don’t think he has any Wharton Grads on his payroll.

Small business is what is responsible for any growth we are seeing.

You and I live in the NE where we tax companies to death. Go take a look at Texas to see what happens when government gets out of the way.

Agree, smaller government, less regulation, causes small business to grow.

as far as the BA's out of work. cross train, should have learned a trade instead of language and drama, or mass media or other useless degrees

I hired a day laborer in Florida that was a Mechanical Engineer. do what you gotta do


figured i was stick this little bit of wisdom in here, no charge, its free


my advice to an unemployed person. looking for a job, is your job. and you are expected to be working 9 hours a day till you find one

 

[zannej]

Just to clarify in case I was misunderstood, I do not think it is fair for people who make a ton of money to have to pay 50% of their income in taxes. As Bud pointed out, the "sharks" have huge expenses that help start up businesses and create jobs.

I know nothing about Kevin Bacon's politics, but I liked him in "Stir of Echoes".

Did anyone see that Arnold Schwarzenegger has a thing where if you donate to a charity you can ride in a tank with him and smash things? (I know, completely off topic there, but I thought the little video about it was funny).

I'm too sick to have a well-thought out response to all of this right now.

 

[slownsteady]

It exists fine how can you say that one of the members here is a young guy trying to live the dream and doing it despite the road blocks. Correct me if I’m wrong Chris but I don’t think he has any Wharton Grads on his payroll.

Small business is what is responsible for any growth we are seeing.

You and I live in the NE where we tax companies to death. Go take a look at Texas to see what happens when government gets out of the way.

I'm not sure I understand your point here, Bud. I was referring to this story (below) about how big business has changed over the years. Those opportunities are very limited these days.

But you know what when I was 17 years old and 2 days out of high school one of the ten largest companies in the world (yes an evil multinational company)took a chance on me and allowed me to join their 4 year apprentice program. They also paid any and all tuition for as long as I wanted to keep going to school and then provided me with 43 years of good employment and even healthcare.

 

[Chris]

I had one educated guy once. He lasted about a year and then moved on to bigger and better things. Really he only left because he was tired of coming home covered in mud and pooh. He came from a bank to me and then went to an electrical company. We still talk and now he is getting a better education to become a CPA.

 

[frodo]

I'm not sure I understand your point here, Bud. I was referring to this story (below) about how big business has changed over the years. Those opportunities are very limited these days.

I disagree that these opportunities are limited.
opportunity such as that is available to individuals who bust their ***, strive to grab the brass ring.
employers notice good employees and reward them. I have seen this done more than once.
IMO, It is the same as it has always been. a mediocre employee is left to be mediocre. collect their pay and be the company drone.
exceptional employees are culled to rise to the top.

you make your own opportunities.

I DO agree that when government gets the boot off your neck, jobs thrive

 

[bud16415]

On a slightly different note there is a thread running parallel to this one where a short time member here first posted for advice on doing a few fairly straight forward repairs to his house to make it easier for him with some disabilities to keep living there. His budget was limited and he wasn’t sure how to best spend the money, he had to get the most for his money.

We didn’t hear back for several months after he had a plan of action and he returned with a story of being ripped off by a scumbag phony builder, leaving him in worst shape than before and facing a cold winter with gaps in his unfinished walls.

He’s got a great deal of support here and offers of help in many different ways from the good people here, and I know if the internet didn’t separate all of us with such great distance he would be also getting manpower also. That’s what good people do for each other and help their neighbors.

As a boy I only had to be reminded once to shovel the older people in the neighborhood when they couldn’t, or mow their grass. I often saw one neighbor helping another with watching kids or fixing a house. It’s what people did.

I could draw some comparisons between these two threads but if you take a minute to think they will be very obvious.

 

[Chris]

It's a her and her name is Apryl.

 

[zannej]

Frodo, I think it depends on the company. I imagine MOST companies reward people for doing good jobs-- although that get rewarded for setting the bar extremely low and then going slightly above.

I have seen some places where the people who work harder are actually screwed over and the people who barely do their jobs get to coast and don't get fired. The local Walmart is an example of that.

I think it depends on where you look. Some places have a lot of opportunities and other places don't.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't work hard and try to build a better life, but in some places there are obstacles that are very hard to overcome. There are the people who need a little helping hand from time to time. Sometimes all the hard work and effort doesn't pay off without a little assistance from others.

And I just sneezed so hard I lost my train of thought. LOL.

 

[havasu]

Chris, where exactly does April live? Dammit, if she was closer to me, I'd be over there in a heartbeat and fix up her problems.

This is similar to the people standing at the freeway off ramps. If they ask for money, I drive away. If they ask for food, I bring them to a restaurant and buy them all the food they can eat. I may be conservative, but still have a heart.

 

[slownsteady]

This thread started on healthcare and it has strayed into all kinds of social and political sidetracks. I'm going to sign off this thread with a simple thought which has been at the base of all my posts here:

All the theories and positions and political stances are fine - in theory.
In the real world, it is PEOPLE that get left behind. And I am uncomfortable with just saying "oh well".

 

[Chris]

I don't say oh well, I say get up and help yourself and then others will jump to help you.

 

[bud16415]

I haven’t seen a thread yet that went past 3 pages and stayed on topic. I don’t care to see people left behind also. But where does the regulation to protect us end. Let’s view this from a perspective of what’s best for the masses is the path we will take as a society. We have to have ways to force positive behavior on people then. We will narrow the focus to just health care and what activates increase one person’s risk causing another person to carry more than their share of the burden because we are now a group collective. Smoking, Drinking, Drugs come to mind first then Food, then Activates. They all are capable of increasing one person’s burden needing to be paid by the collective that’s not fair also just as unfair as leaving a person behind IMO. I know guys that like to race motocross. Is that desire a preexisting condition? It puts them at much higher risk than say a guy that enjoys curling as his pastime. But in reality all things we do that are not actively benefiting society gives us a different status than everyone else. Drinking a 32 ounce fountain drink is a burden on the collective in some people’s eyes. We are all dealt different hands at birth and that is really not fair ether but its reality.
I’m someplace in the middle I’m lucky I have healthcare that covers most of my needs. But I read Oprah and other super rich can go once a year for a whole body scan that is so detailed it will show the beginning of a tumor or a problem that can be easily corrected. I don’t know the number but say it cost 50k. I go to my provider and ask for the test and I get a big fat NO. They say you want preventive measure go get a colon scope every 5 years and we will pay 80%. In that case am I the guy being left behind. The sad part is my capitalist company invented the machines that let us look inside ourselves with such clarity but can’t use it without a serious reason.
Life is cruel and for 99.99% of the time man has been on earth it was survival of the fittest. The system that built this nation is flawed as are all systems. Social experiments have been tried to all degrees in countries all around the world and the results are out there to be viewed. Neal seems very happy with the Canadian Model just as I was quite happy for many years with how it worked in the states. Over the last 200 years under the capitalist model the whole of the population here has benefited and advanced society more than any other model in all of recorded history. I will save whoever is going to say yes but at the expense of the rest of the world. Some people believe that and will make a case for it. I say we have done more good than harm under that system.
The reason things got off track in this thread was because the parallel between free enterprise and competition is the same in Healthcare as it is in every other thing the government seems to think they can do better as a monopoly.
“oh well” that’s my take on it.

 

[frodo]

I agree with Chris 110%. God helps those that help hemselves



my 2 cents. this thread does not parallel what has happen on these boards to others.

voluntarily helping some one is a a gift from the heart to a person who you think truly needs your help.
it is a charitable act,

being forced to pay a tax, is not charity. it is what it is. a tax.

INMO, the 2 are no where near the same.

i happily, and with an open heart, [and pocket book] help my fellow man.
It is something I CHOOSE to do. I do it in my own way. after my bills are paid and I can afford it.

I hope you can see the difference between a tax, and charity

 

[frodo]

This thread started on healthcare and it has strayed into all kinds of social and political sidetracks. I'm going to sign off this thread with a simple thought which has been at the base of all my posts here:

All the theories and positions and political stances are fine - in theory.
In the real world, it is PEOPLE that get left behind. And I am uncomfortable with just saying "oh well".

I can understand a soft heart, nothing wrong with it. shows you have compassion and care for your fellow man.

 

[Chris]

It is ok to live an unhealthy lifestyle and get something for free but if I was a smoker or was unhealthy I would gt to pay even more for my insurance.

I just went to the ACA website to get a quote as if I was a smoker and my monthly went up by 160 bucks. Yet if I had an income of 20k it still didn't change.

 

[frodo]

heres another damn thing. For years....the Hospitals have been gauging us on the price of health care.
they would snicker at our dumb ***'s and say, We have to charge more to offset the cost of caring for the less fortunate .

Ok, NOW the "less fortunate" have health care. SO>>>>When are the prices going to drop?????

 

[frodo]

deleted due to high blood pressure!!!!!!!

 

[Chris]

Never, the hospitals, health insurance and the government have such a racket going on why would they?

If I had a monopoly like that I would want to hold onto it too.

 

[frodo]

Never, the hospitals, health insurance and the government have such a racket going on why would they?

If I had a monopoly like that I would want to hold onto it too.

Exactly, which brings me around to the realisation this is not for the wellbeing of the less fortunate but a big redistribution of wealth.

or if you prefer a power grab