What's your Temp?

[bud16415]

If you are driving down the highway and you see an unavoidable accident up ahead ( accident, landslide, tornado, let's not get caught up in the example), do you slow down? Or do you think "well, it's unavoidable and I'm gonna die anyway so I might as well hammer down and hit that thing hard!" I bet you would do your best to avoid being killed.

Oh why bother. As long as you see this as a political thing I'm not going to get anywhere.

Of course I would slow down. I actually like your analogy as with the really awful weather this winter I have been living that analogy every day on my 45 minute each way drive to work in some really bad conditions. When the weather is bad I plan on my 45 minute drive taking an hour. I carry some emergency tools and supplies in the car just in case and extra warm clothing hoping to never need them. I slow my speed down etc. With all my good intensions it doesn’t change the fact that where I normally go 60MPH and now go 45MPH I will be passed multiple times every morning by guys that didn’t leave early and are bound and determined to go 60+ MPH no matter what. They are endangering me and all the cars coming the other direction plus themselves. Those guys are the China, Mexico and India of my microcosm of my little world. I have no hope or ability to slow them down but I wish I did. The people passing me are not learning by my example at all. Just the opposite they are seeing me as an obstruction to their progress.

Now twice this winter so far I have been in a convoy of likeminded safe people and here comes the high roller along. Now he decides to not pass just me but 6 others all at the same time on ice covered roads with a layer of snow and slush. In one occasion, he gets by 4 of us throwing up slush and must duck into the pack because of oncoming traffic, almost causing a crash. At the very first opportunity he takes off again and gets around all the impeding traffic. About 2 miles ahead is a turn in the road we call dead man’s curve. And sure enough there he is crawling out of his truck on its side in a ditch and trying to flag someone down. He was alone and seemed to be unharmed and the entire convoy waved and tooted as they went past him. I’m pretty sure the 3 mile walk did him some good. The other one ended up 100’ out in some corn stubble and I tooted at him also. In fact that guy has after that passed me again under similar conditions. Some people will never learn.

Is there a political component to global climate change hysteria? Most defiantly. In fact you see it as one also from your prospective. You see the conservatives view of the issue as geared to pleasing the big money people at the expense of the little guy. The liberals see it as a tool to bring everyone standard of living into a more similar level in this country and around the world. Very little is about science.

 

[Flyover]

What if in the analogy, there are cars slowing down and it seems like there might be an accident up ahead--but you also don't have any proof there's an accident (you can't see it, it's too far off) and it could just be people slowing down because they've been told they should, or because they see other people slowing down and figure they should do the same--or because they just want to make it look like they're courteous people.

(That's the version of the analogy I think frodo would offer up. Apologies, frodo, if I'm misrepresenting you.)

In theory environmentalism comes from a conservative instinct. It says "slow down, there's too much change happening too fast and we might lose something precious we didn't know we had." Are Al Gore's fans really environmentalists? What if you see those brake lights up ahead but when you get closer to them you realize the cars are actually speeding up?

My take on it is this: you can't ask people to authentically live up to a policy that is abstract to them and which they'll never really feel (such as "American energy policy") if it is inconsistent with the personal decisions they use in their everyday lives, the impact of which they can feel immediately (such as "I want to upgrade to the newest, biggest, shiniest thing with the most features"). Not to mention being inconsistent with every other policy they're already following that says "progress and change and let's move forward."

That's why in practice environmentalism is not a goal for how people should live, but a political tool for one team to bash the other team over the head with. Both teams lose, because one team lives a polluting wasteful lifestyle out of hypocrisy while the other team lives that same lifestyle out of spite.

I'm not a climate scientist and I'm guessing nobody else on this thread is either. Informed, moderate people seem to mostly agree the climate is changing and that human activity is a major contributor. Whether they're right or not doesn't matter because there's still a 0% chance anybody--no matter how well informed--can predict whether a changing climate would be good or bad for life on this planet on net, and there's also a 0% chance anybody can prescribe a feasible way to stop or reverse a change in climate that they know for sure would work as intended.

So in the traffic analogy, my choice is to drive slow, take surface streets, and think hard about whether I really need to be driving in the first place. If more people did that it might not have any effect on the climate, but it sure would avoid a long traffic jam.

 

[oldognewtrick]

Do I think we have a stewardship responsibility to preserve our planet, you bet your sweet bibby I do. Should we all do what we can to have clean air, clean water, non polluting the soil, littering space with junk that has become useless, make our planet fit for future generations...absolutely!

My problem is the reason behind most of these initiatives is profit. The carbon exchange was set up to make a few extremely wealthy at the expense of those of us who can least afford it. Here's some reading to wrap your arms around to better understands a couple peoples motives. Do I believe it all, no. Do I believe some, you read, you decide. Don't let prejudices cloud your vision. Or, don't believe everything someone tells you...Just my 2 cents.

https://www.google.com/search?q=al+...soft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=&gws_rd=ssl

Back on track, single digits yesterday, 65 Wednesday...

 

[Flyover]

One more thing, sorry for ranting but this has been on my mind a lot lately:

Yesterday my family was at Costco. When you walk in the first thing you see is basically a wall of huge flatscreen TVs. The smallest one must be about 50-something inches. It made me think of our 32" flatscreen at home, and how we bought it back in 2011 to replace a CRT that was just a little smaller. I couldn't remember whether there had been anything wrong with that CRT, so I asked my wife.

She said something like "I don't know, we got a flatscreen TV because the CRT was obsolete."

I asked, "But did it still work?"

Neither of us could remember. Apparently "obsolete" just meant "there's a newer version out there somewhere." And that's the scary thing: people march forward with the newest shiniest item--call it keeping up with the Joneses or whatever else--as if they aren't even making a decision. I do it too, and I think of myself as having an Amish attitude toward a lot of technology!

This applies not just to consumer electronics but to the size of your house, your car, what level of sophistication and service you expect from your healthcare providers, what kind of benefits you expect from your employer, and so on. "Standard of living inflation" I guess.

Someone in my neighborhood has a car with a bumper sticker that says "Simplify." (It's on a Nissan Maxima that can't be more than about 3 or 4 years old. Is that really the simplest way that person could get around? Oh well, nevermind.) We tell ourselves we're simplifying and living within our means, but are we really?

The costs of all this are mainly hidden from us--they might include costs to the environment, or financial pressure to bring in illegal immigrants or export jobs so all this stuff we demand can still be affordable--but they're still very real costs. My point is, our lifestyle choices are actually upstream from a lot of the issues we tend to think of as fundamental.

Al Gore never gets around to the one question we SHOULD be asking ourselves, which is "What can we do without?" That's not a question any politician can ever suggest of course.

This is all my opinion, take it for what it is.

 

[Flyover]

More and then I'm done, promise:

It seems like sites like this exist because people want to be more self-sufficient and help others do the same. Often a goal of self-sufficiency is to spend less, which means to need less, and to live more simply. Reduce our drag on the people around us. That's why I like this kind of stuff.

Thermometer says 23˚.

 

[Chris]

One more thing, sorry for ranting but this has been on my mind a lot lately:

Yesterday my family was at Costco. When you walk in the first thing you see is basically a wall of huge flatscreen TVs. The smallest one must be about 50-something inches. It made me think of our 32" flatscreen at home, and how we bought it back in 2011 to replace a CRT that was just a little smaller. I couldn't remember whether there had been anything wrong with that CRT, so I asked my wife.

She said something like "I don't know, we got a flatscreen TV because the CRT was obsolete."

I asked, "But did it still work?"

Neither of us could remember. Apparently "obsolete" just meant "there's a newer version out there somewhere." And that's the scary thing: people march forward with the newest shiniest item--call it keeping up with the Joneses or whatever else--as if they aren't even making a decision. I do it too, and I think of myself as having an Amish attitude toward a lot of technology!

This applies not just to consumer electronics but to the size of your house, your car, what level of sophistication and service you expect from your healthcare providers, what kind of benefits you expect from your employer, and so on. "Standard of living inflation" I guess.

Someone in my neighborhood has a car with a bumper sticker that says "Simplify." (It's on a Nissan Maxima that can't be more than about 3 or 4 years old. Is that really the simplest way that person could get around? Oh well, nevermind.) We tell ourselves we're simplifying and living within our means, but are we really?

The costs of all this are mainly hidden from us--they might include costs to the environment, or financial pressure to bring in illegal immigrants or export jobs so all this stuff we demand can still be affordable--but they're still very real costs. My point is, our lifestyle choices are actually upstream from a lot of the issues we tend to think of as fundamental.

Al Gore never gets around to the one question we SHOULD be asking ourselves, which is "What can we do without?" That's not a question any politician can ever suggest of course.

This is all my opinion, take it for what it is.

My minimalist buddies have more than most families.

I have more junk than I ever need but I am all about reuse and purpose if possible. That and I love tinkering and restoring things

 

[Chris]

55 and raining here

 

[bud16415]

Some good reading olddog.

As to wasting energy, wasting money, pollution etc. I heard on the news on the way to work today that the number one goal of all the auto makers is self-driving cars. I got to thinking I90 for the last week or so thru our area because of crashes related to the snow has had a lowered speed limit. That’s a good thing they had to drag out a hundred electronic signs stating the new temporary speed limits. Almost every car made for the last few years and into the future has GPS. They will need it for sure if we won’t have to drive them ourselves. Every road in the country is mapped into them and every road in the country has a speed limit. How hard would it be to make cars that couldn’t go over the speed limit and when conditions make it better to drive slower big brother pushes a button and slows you down. We could put all the cops to work on other crimes and get them off the ticket writing. Or could we? Is that revenue needed do they want some percentage to speed so they can place a type of tax on you in the form of a ticket.

You say we live in a free country and what about all the old cars. Some of the insurance companies already have gizmos that do this and if you have one you get a lower rate. They don’t slow you down they just look to see if you speed. Go the right speed save money that’s fair. Everyone is getting money or paying money to the state if you don’t speed and have the gizmo on your car you ether pay less or get more. Speed you pay more or get less. Or some such system. If you have an old car you get a free box that keeps track of you speed you get a ticket sent to you. Disconnect the seal would be just like breaking the seal on your electric meter.

I could see doing this a lot easier than making me sit in a car on auto pilot. What is the improvement in doing that? At least doing this would save fuel, make the roads safer and eliminate cops giving out tickets.

About 20f today with a wind chill that’s cold to the bone. Warming up mid-week.

 

[bud16415]

More and then I'm done, promise:

It seems like sites like this exist because people want to be more self-sufficient and help others do the same. Often a goal of self-sufficiency is to spend less, which means to need less, and to live more simply. Reduce our drag on the people around us. That's why I like this kind of stuff.

Thermometer says 23˚.

That is a common thread that runs thru most of us here. In my case I grew up in a time where if you didn’t do it yourself it didn’t get done. And then after you did yours or sometimes before you helped your neighbor that no longer could do his own.

I started a thread about doing the most with the least and getting a home without paying a penny in interest.

 

[nealtw]

Some good reading olddog.

As to wasting energy, wasting money, pollution etc. I heard on the news on the way to work today that the number one goal of all the auto makers is self-driving cars. I got to thinking I90 for the last week or so thru our area because of crashes related to the snow has had a lowered speed limit. That’s a good thing they had to drag out a hundred electronic signs stating the new temporary speed limits. Almost every car made for the last few years and into the future has GPS. They will need it for sure if we won’t have to drive them ourselves. Every road in the country is mapped into them and every road in the country has a speed limit. How hard would it be to make cars that couldn’t go over the speed limit and when conditions make it better to drive slower big brother pushes a button and slows you down. We could put all the cops to work on other crimes and get them off the ticket writing. Or could we? Is that revenue needed do they want some percentage to speed so they can place a type of tax on you in the form of a ticket.

You say we live in a free country and what about all the old cars. Some of the insurance companies already have gizmos that do this and if you have one you get a lower rate. They don’t slow you down they just look to see if you speed. Go the right speed save money that’s fair. Everyone is getting money or paying money to the state if you don’t speed and have the gizmo on your car you ether pay less or get more. Speed you pay more or get less. Or some such system. If you have an old car you get a free box that keeps track of you speed you get a ticket sent to you. Disconnect the seal would be just like breaking the seal on your electric meter.

I could see doing this a lot easier than making me sit in a car on auto pilot. What is the improvement in doing that? At least doing this would save fuel, make the roads safer and eliminate cops giving out tickets.

About 20f today with a wind chill that’s cold to the bone. Warming up mid-week.

I like that idea. For years I have thought speed change signs should have a system that would give a signal in the car to get your attention.

And yes a freeway speed should change with the number of cars on the road.
With enough cars you just can't have safe spacing for the posted speed.

 

[Flyover]

Driverless cars have a whole range of ethical issues. There are some potential advantages but also some disadvantages--such as the fact that research shows human drivers consistently don't respond well to driverless cars. As bud16415 suggested, a lot of cars would have to be retrofitted in some way.

For me one important aspect is that I actually do like our American car culture at least to some degree. There's something about saving up and buying an old used car when you're in high school and having that sense of freedom. Or going to a car show where people have beautifully upkept or modified classic cars. There's also a component of driving that is empowering; learning how to handle a powerful machine and maintain it and have that closeness with it, to know what gear you're in just by listening to the engine through the firewall.

That beautiful part of our culture would all be threatened by driverless cars. Nobody would be paying attention, they'd all just be looking at social media on their phones while Google drives them around.

 

[nealtw]

Driverless cars have a whole range of ethical issues. There are some potential advantages but also some disadvantages--such as the fact that research shows human drivers consistently don't respond well to driverless cars. As bud16415 suggested, a lot of cars would have to be retrofitted in some way.

For me one important aspect is that I actually do like our American car culture at least to some degree. There's something about saving up and buying an old used car when you're in high school and having that sense of freedom. Or going to a car show where people have beautifully upkept or modified classic cars. There's also a component of driving that is empowering; learning how to handle a powerful machine and maintain it and have that closeness with it, to know what gear you're in just by listening to the engine through the firewall.

That beautiful part of our culture would all be threatened by driverless cars. Nobody would be paying attention, they'd all just be looking at social media on their phones while Google drives them around.

One of the advantages they talk about is spacing as the computers can respond faster. Should be fun merging into to traffic when 30 18 wheelers are driving 3 ft apart.

 

[oldognewtrick]

Well, maybe they could keep the 18 wheelers out of the fast lane going up hills and blocking all of us who can't drive 50 in a 70.

 

[nealtw]

Well, maybe they could keep the 18 wheelers out of the fast lane going up hills and blocking all of us who can't drive 50 in a 70.

Or the train of 30 is passing the train of 50.:trophy:

 

[nealtw]

-6 C, 70 K winds That's code for crap it's cold.

 

[Chris]

Well, maybe they could keep the 18 wheelers out of the fast lane going up hills and blocking all of us who can't drive 50 in a 70.

California has diferent rules which I agree and disagree with. Anything with three axles or more has a speed limit of 55 (This is the part I disagree with as it causes traffic in most areas, I agree with it in heavy congestion areas but when you are in the middle of the desert leaving hte state it makes no sense). Also anything with three axles or more has to stay in the first two lanes on the right. Supposed to stay in the slow lane and use the second to pass. Keep the fast clear of trucks and autos with trailers but then that old granny that would be in the slow lane is now in the fast lane because she is scared of the trucks.




It's 50 here and raining.

 

[bud16415]

It might hit 50 today snow is really melting and they use so much salt the old ice cream machine was really working overnight. this morning it was 39 roads wet and people were going fast because you cant have black ice if it is above 32 right? Wrong. The cold was coming up from the road and freezing the surface here and there. it all looks the same till you see the traction control light flashing and then it is too late.

The worst part of the salt is it pounds the frost so deep into the cracks in the roads. I expect pot holes like crazy.

The 50 part sure feels nice though. crazy climate change again.

 

[frodo]

Well, maybe they could keep the 18 wheelers out of the fast lane going up hills and blocking all of us who can't drive 50 in a 70.

18 wheeler have too stay in the rh lane except to pass here


68 and sunny, finally, it has rained for a week and cold as hell

 

[nealtw]

All back to normal, warmed above freezing and lot's of rain.
Pot holes are budding and should be in full bloom by spring.

 

[Chris]

54 currently here. supposed to rain the next five days.