Rotten floor joist under walker-in shower

[nealtw]

with something like this you can map out the floor and make a plan of action
https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/boschtools-ocs/line-lasers-23506-c/

A job like this might take more planning than work.

I would also check the ceiling for level too.

 

[bud16415]

Neal is the expert so I will go with his plan. For me crawling around below the floor is fine for making a plan of action, but I would be removing the floor and make the repairs from above given the damage you show. I have a feeling the view from above will show you a lot more as to what is going on. It changes the scope of the job quite a bit but could speed it up at the same time.

 

[zerokreap]

with something like this you can map out the floor and make a plan of action
https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/boschtools-ocs/line-lasers-23506-c/

A job like this might take more planning than work.

I would also check the ceiling for level too.

Neal, can you elaborate a little more on this. The link takes me to a page with several different tools. And to be honest, never have used anything other than a classic level, I am not exactly sure how to use one of these to map things out as you suggest.

 

[zerokreap]

Neal is the expert so I will go with his plan. For me crawling around below the floor is fine for making a plan of action, but I would be removing the floor and make the repairs from above given the damage you show. I have a feeling the view from above will show you a lot more as to what is going on. It changes the scope of the job quite a bit but could speed it up at the same time.

Your point is well-taken, but because of that wall I would not be able to get exactly above the rotten joist. Would that nullify the advantage of coming in from the top?

 

[bud16415]

Your point is well-taken, but because of that wall I would not be able to get exactly above the rotten joist. Would that nullify the advantage of coming in from the top?

I don’t think so even if you had to remove some of the wall coverings it would give you the big picture. The more of this I do the more I find getting to the problem ends up being less work in the long run even with having to go back in and repair all the tear out. Plus as I get older working in cramped quarters is not my thing as well.

 

[nealtw]

Neal, can you elaborate a little more on this. The link takes me to a page with several different tools. And to be honest, never have used anything other than a classic level, I am not exactly sure how to use one of these to map things out as you suggest.

These are lower priced laser levels that can be set on the floor, the make a level red line thru out the room a few inches from the floor.

With some very simple math and a tape measure you map the floor slope.
If the light come out of the machine at 3" and you find across the room it is 5" from the floor you have a 2" problem in that area.

 

[nealtw]

Neal, can you elaborate a little more on this. The link takes me to a page with several different tools. And to be honest, never have used anything other than a classic level, I am not exactly sure how to use one of these to map things out as you suggest.

I just meant you might gain access to a small hole to see the type of construction at the bottom of the wall. Or is it sitting in the floor?

 

[zerokreap]

These are lower priced laser levels that can be set on the floor, the make a level red line thru out the room a few inches from the floor.

With some very simple math and a tape measure you map the floor slope.
If the light come out of the machine at 3" and you find across the room it is 5" from the floor you have a 2" problem in that area.

Ok, thanks. That makes perfect sense, and actually sounds like a great reason to purchase one of these tools.

 

[nealtw]

Ok, thanks. That makes perfect sense, and actually sounds like a great reason to purchase one of these tools.

Just looking at the floor joists I do think that is original outside wall, the house might have been L shaped before the addition.

 

[nealtw]

I don’t think so even if you had to remove some of the wall coverings it would give you the big picture. The more of this I do the more I find getting to the problem ends up being less work in the long run even with having to go back in and repair all the tear out. Plus as I get older working in cramped quarters is not my thing as well.

He did say if the job was to much he might hire a pro.

In the mean time someone has to figure out if this is platform or balloon and develop the plan.

 

[nealtw]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUhIeGO7dao[/ame]

 

[zerokreap]

He did say if the job was to much he might hire a pro.

In the mean time someone has to figure out if this is platform or balloon and develop the plan.

I do my best not to mess with the walls much int he old part of the house, since they are plaster and a lot harder to repair than sheetrock...at least, in my experience. The addition is sheetrock though, so perhaps I can cut a small porthole and figure this out. Man, I wish I lived closer to the house so I could easily run over there and sort this stuff out quickly.

Maybe some of these pics will help, otherwise I can get some better ones soon:

 

[nealtw]

All that looks like newer construction, not much of it was done correctly but it for the most part is passing the test.

The areas that have turned black where there is a water stain might have things growing in them. Once that has dried out it should be treated with something that kills mold and such.
End grain treatment is copper and is used for cuts in treated lumber and works well for killing mold in lumber that can't be removed.. Paints like water.
https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.cut-n-seal-pro-guard-soft-green-946ml.1000110347.html

 

[nealtw]

This brick wall looks to have built in posts that could have supported the floor. As long as it is the brick wall that is level.
It appears there is daylight showing at the far end??

 

[zerokreap]

This brick wall looks to have built in posts that could have supported the floor. As long as it is the brick wall that is level.
It appears there is daylight showing at the far end??

Yes, I think the flex downward to the right in that pic, where the joist has collapsed, is what is causing that bit of light to come in...basically, the length of the wall has shortened and turned upward on the ends, just enough, to allow a bit of light. Looking from the outside of the house, there is no obvious gap leading under the house. That pic was taken in the late afternoon and that is the west wall of the addition, so perhaps the extra light makes it look a bit more exposed than is the case. Of course, that addition could have been much better, let's not kid ourselves.

One issue that came up was a tree growing next to that wall died a few years ago...and I think after the roots rotted, the soil began to collapse a bit. This has produced a bit of lean in one portion of the wall. Jeez this all probably makes the place sound like a total hole.

The original portions of the house are actually very decently done. Unfortunately, I haven't taken any pics, since there's nothing wrong in that part. If I could just get this joist problem solved. I would be in pretty good shape overall.

 

[nealtw]

You will need to find out just how bad the floor level is and what the construction style is.
Even with a balloon frame some of the interior walls maybe built on top of the floors like a platform.
If that wall is bearing, you will need to get to the attic and see just how things are sitting on the wall like ceiling joist that join there or roof structure that is landing on it. Pictures please.

 

[zerokreap]

You will need to find out just how bad the floor level is and what the construction style is.
Even with a balloon frame some of the interior walls maybe built on top of the floors like a platform.
If that wall is bearing, you will need to get to the attic and see just how things are sitting on the wall like ceiling joist that join there or roof structure that is landing on it. Pictures please.

Unfortunately, there is no attic. That is to say, up until about 8 years ago, there was a flat roof above that portion of the house. When I discovered that roof was actually holding water and leaking, I had a pitched roof build on top of it. That roof line was tied into the pitch of the roof for the original part of the house.

I should be back down at the house in the next week or so. I will do my best to figure out if it's platform or balloon...and if the walls are sitting on the floors or just outside the floor framing. I'll take some pics in the attic that I have over the original house.

I am guessing that I will need to know the framing methods for both sections of the house...I suppose it's not beyond reason that I might have balloon in one part and platform in another?

One thing I am a bit concerned about would be that the lifting action would affect where the roof line of the original and addition are tied together. I would have for this movement to cause some sort of leak.

Lastly, any lift should be done rather slowly, right? 0.5-1'' per week?

 

[bud16415]

If this drop mostly happened before the roof was rebuilt there is a good chance the roof line will change in correcting this problem with lifting it back into place. Be very careful in planning a lift even a very slow one. Old houses mostly changed over decades and have taken a set. If things have pulled away then a lift could close the gaps back up. If it has fallen and then the roof repaired there are no gaps to close up.

Sometimes what is needed is to just solidly stabilize and then shim the damaged area back up and rebuild it.

 

[nealtw]

They should have cut an access hole from old attic into new, but if the plywood is still there, looking at it might not help.

What we want to know is just how bad everything is, if it is just the floor that can be dealt with pretty quickly but if it is walls, you are right in working a slow lift to allow things to go back in place.
Depending on what is wrong and if the walls and floor are separate it might be better to just stabilize the walls where they are.

If we just guess that the ceiling was say 2x6 joists with a 10 or 12 ft span. Does it look like they would have to land on that wall.
Then when they structured the new roof they may have put new weight on that wall.

 

[zerokreap]

If this drop mostly happened before the roof was rebuilt there is a good chance the roof line will change in correcting this problem with lifting it back into place. Be very careful in planning a lift even a very slow one. Old houses mostly changed over decades and have taken a set. If things have pulled away then a lift could close the gaps back up. If it has fallen and then the roof repaired there are no gaps to close up.

Sometimes what is needed is to just solidly stabilize and then shim the damaged area back up and rebuild it.

I bet at least half of the drop had already occurred before the new roof...and then half after the roof was built. I will be sure to have a roofing expert come check things out after the repair to make sure it all looks as it should. :thbup: