off the grid

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Man as we know him has been on earth for approximately 200,000 years. Civilized man about 6,000 years. Man dependent on some form of grid about 100 years. So it clearly isn’t complicated man with much less abilities and resources hasn’t had much trouble making a go of it.

What is complicated is doing it and keeping everything the grid provides. As my mother used to say having your cake and eating it to.

My nephew is a little bit of the off the grid mentality and I often tell him he works 5 times as hard at being off the grid than he would being on the grid. He’s not paying high heating bills like I do but he is putting in more hours cutting, hauling and splitting wood not to mention tending to fires, than if he worked a min wage job for 1/5 the hours to pay his gas bill.

The idea of cooperation isn’t that bad of a system and we got all this going in the last 100 years because of free enterprise and capitalism in this country. Yep its really those 1% folks that we hate to think are getting richer and richer because we are hooked on the ease of the grid system. What do we get in return we get to be enslaved working for these same people to pay for the simple easy life. Just like my nephew is enslaved to having to work 5 times harder for less but he’s showing them.

The big question is how do you view it? Some call it a win win some a loose loose.
 
cutting, hauling and splitting
>So he can save on a gym membership.

Tell me about him when viewed from the OCEAN angle; Openness, Conscientiousness, Extraversion, Agreeableness, Neuroticism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits

Otherwise, I'll have to guess but you're the one who knows him.

Then I'll go over to the survivalist forum and see how they stack up with the off-the-grid people.

There doesn't seem to be a forum for the on-the-grid people. . .some of whom drank the Kool-Aid, some of whom are Sheeple, some of whom are in the know?
. . .dunno'. . .:)
 
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"lives past 30"
'cause they are now too slow to outrun predators.
In the US, the predators are financial. Can't be outrun.
Movie rec:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_or_High_Water_(film)


Forgot:
"People who don't exhibit a clear tendency towards specific characteristics chosen from the above-mentioned related pairs in all five dimensions are considered adaptable, moderate and reasonable personalities, but can be perceived as unprincipled, inscrutable and calculating."
 
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Wuzzat? said:
"lives past 30"
'cause they are now too slow to outrun predators.
In the US, the predators are financial. Can't be outrun.
Movie rec:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_or_High_Water_(film)


Forgot:
"People who don't exhibit a clear tendency towards specific characteristics chosen from the above-mentioned related pairs in all five dimensions are considered adaptable, moderate and reasonable personalities, but can be perceived as unprincipled, inscrutable and calculating."
Click to expand...

Sounds like evidence in divorce court.
 
I suppose some people go off the grid just to "stick it to the MAN", and some others go off the grid because they see imminent failure in the near future. Having a back-up system isn't too bad an idea. And then there are the ones who don't want to support the fossil fuel industry, but burning wood is an odd way of doing it. If you can go solar or wind and contribute (sell) the excess to the grid, that may be the only win-win.
 
There's a certain dignity I think off-the-gridders are after. When on the grid they feel yoked to a system they find degrading or inhumane, or they just don't like being part of the system for whatever other reason. Maybe it's a certain spirit of independence they don't want to lose hold of.

I'm sure some of them just don't really like other people, and want to make sure they don't ever have to deal with anyone else.

Or maybe it's a "you're not a real man unless you're able to live without the aid of any other person or institution" kind of thing--which is a mindset I can definitely understand even though I also recognize the flaws in it.

This topic reminds me of Ted Kaczynski, whose philosophy of technology is compelling and interesting if you can separate it from the horrible crimes he committed.

On a lighter note, this topic also reminds me of an episode of King of the Hill, specifically the exchange between Chappy (an off-the-grid backwoodsman) and Hank Hill (the main character):

Chappy:
I live in a shack, I poop in an outhouse, I eat what I kill.

Hank Hill:
Uhh....there isn't a Mrs. Chappy, is there Chappy?

PS. If you're curious about the more luxurious style of off-the-grid type of living, check out some of the Earthships they've got up in Taos, New Mexico: https://www.aol.com/2012/09/18/new-mexico-earthship-community-off-the-grid/
 
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Actually, since July there's a McMansion being built up the street that's encased in 15" of Styrofoam. He'll probably have rooftop south-facing solar panels but he will be on city gas/elec/water.

The site foreman made the deep-pocketed owner out to be some kind of kook.
 
nealtw said:
Sounds like evidence in divorce court.
Click to expand...

I had dirt on my ex so she needed dirt on me.

So she set up what is now called a Honey Trap.
But she wasn't subtle, and if this were a cartoon, big letters spelling TRAP would have appeared over her head.

I went anyway-had a very good time-and then, come court time, admitted under oath what I did.
The looks on my wife's team was that of
c-o-n-s-t-e-r-n-a-t-i-o-n.
They sure were hoping to watch me squirm.

I was probably the only one that year, or ever, who actually told the truth under oath.

Ahh, the good old days. . .:p
 
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There are quite a few around me living off the grid as this state is more ok with it. I have contemplated building a cabin that is off the grid, it feels odd for me to think that seeing how I am a utility contractor and install the grid.

I live in 15 acres and the only utility I have is power. I've thought about solar but for the cost to me it is not worth it. The efficiency drops way to fast on the panels and I would be replacing them in 15 years. Our power is cheap here so the costs don't outweigh enough for me to consider. That and in the winter we are lucky to get 7-8 hours of sun light.
 
slownsteady said:
then there are the ones who don't want to support the fossil fuel industry, but burning wood is an odd way of doing it.
Click to expand...


Wood is no different than fossil fuel other than the time it has spent as stored carbon. A tree is maybe 100 years old so the “people” who dream these titles up say wood is a renewable resource. You cut a tree down to burn and a new one grows in its place. the tree takes in CO2 uses sunlight and water and produces O2 out of the CO2 we breath in the O2 and breath out CO2. The tree keeps the C and that is what it is made out of. If the tree dies and falls over in the woods it combines with O2 and rots. The rotting process is oxidation and the byproduct is releasing the CO2 back into the air. Going into the woods and cutting up the dead tree and burning it to heat your house is oxidation and the end result is the same the CO2 returns into the air. It is all cycles of different length of time is all oil being one of the longest. Because oil was trapped carbon a million years ago it is deemed nonrenewable and a tree stores carbon 100 years is renewable.

Around here they grow switch grass and turn it into diesel fuel and the cycle is short not millions of years. One year it is growing in a field the next it is oil. Same with corn one day its corn a month later it is going in our cars as alcohol.

In all this the water sticks around and the thing that gets used up is the sunlight. So burning wood is basically solar power.
 
With as many bucks as is riding on these kinds of decisions, I recommend getting a financial calculator, like the BAII Plus by Texas Instruments.

Or make a spreadsheet and Google what you need; Time value of money, cash flows, depreciation. . .

You can also use it to check if your mortgage company or car dealer is trying to screw you on payments. I got a bid on a loan once and it had $5,000 hidden in the amortization table.
 
Chris said:
in the winter we are lucky to get 7-8 hours of sun light.
Click to expand...

Energy company proposes Jerome Co. solar farm | Southern Idaho ...
magicvalley.com/.../article_6682332a-6505-11df-a140-001cc4c002e0.html‎
May 21, 2010 ...

Idaho Solar Farm might Not Be Built - News Radio 1310 KLIX
newsradio1310.com/idaho-solar-farm-might-not-be-built/‎
Jan 28, 2013 ...

Even the big guys are not sure.
 
bud16415 said:
burning wood is basically solar power.
Click to expand...
^That right there. We're working in a closed system.

Living off the grid can't be about environmentalism if you think it through. You should care about and be a good steward of the environment regardless, but that's a separate thing from what path electricity or water take on their way to your outlets and faucets. OTG living is about how you feel and how you relate to human constructs such as our institutions and technologies.
 
Wuzzat? said:
17,000 homes is maybe 17 megawatts and you pay $200 megabucks, so $12/watt.
Smaller setups will be more per watt.

It's the same insolation as NJ but the land is probably cheaper in ID.
Click to expand...

And the first string of xmas lights were $12 what would that be 100 years later.
We should go back to whale oil, look at all the jobs that were lost and both oil and electricity is so expensive.:trophy:
 
@3% inflation/year, the lights should cost $230.62???

No whale oil, the Whale Lobby put the kibosh on that.
 
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Is my name showing up as a guest to anyone else?
 
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