Outhouse Main Cable Size

[bud16415]

I’m a little confused by all this. When they build a house, the electricians don’t know what the potential load will be but they wire it anyway. Isn’t there a rule of thumb, like 5amps per outlet or something like that? I don’t know how big his band is but my band practiced in a room that only had 2 X 15a circuits in it and never tripped a breaker.

Homes follow the code and the codes take into account average/normal loading. It is possible to overload/overwhelm any house circuit also and the panel will not allow that.



This project is a little different as he is asking for something quite a bit larger than any typical extension of a home system and at first an unknown need for so much power. Now we know a little more but powering a band can be a wide range of requirements. Your band needed less than 30amps and that is what I would also expect for a little local band. Then on the other hand I’m involved with the building of home theaters on another forum and there are quite a few people that have such massive home theaters they also have 8-10 20amp circuits. It seems crazy to me that it takes that kind of power to watch a movie at home but banks of giant speakers with huge amplifiers can really suck up power.

I have a 100amp sub panel run to my garage shop and barely ever draw over 30amp the wire running to it has to be sized for the possibility of full usage. Then you also have to factor in the type of wire and the distance, along with what is feeding the house also.

 

[Jeff Handy]

170 feet distance plus extra misc. connection lengths in and out, you will be getting some voltage drop that will require upsizing the wire gauge.

 

[JoeD]

There are rules of thumb, but wanting ten 20 amp circuits tells me there must be some known large loads. Like kitchen you know there are large loads(toaster, coffee pot, microwave) that get plugged in so you put fewer receptacles on a circuit. Without knowing those loads it not possible size a feeder.

 

[afjes_2016]

Ron Van:

When they build a house, the electricians don’t know what the potential load will be but they wire it anyway. Isn’t there a rule of thumb

This is not true. An electrician must know what the total loads/demand will be on the home/unit they are wiring. This is done by a "load calculation". This will determine the main feed and the individual circuits needed for wiring the home. Yes, you can judge the number of receptacles to place on any circuit but that is also dependent on what will be used on those circuits.

It is not as cut-and-dry and you may think.

Uniopp (the OP) has not given us yet the electrical needs of the equipment/lighting that is planned. We don't know the extent of the setup.

 

[JoeD]

When they build a house, the electricians don’t know what the potential load will be but they wire it anyway.

When you wire a house you have a good idea of the loads. You know kitchen and bathrooms have large loads like toasters, coffee pots, microwaves, hairdryers, etc.
Wiring specific purpose outbuilding you need more info.

 

[Fireguy5674]

While every house is slightly different based on the occupant, the electrician can account for many of the loads based on typical uses and the size of the house. Years ago, even large houses often had a 60 AMP service. As electrical demand increased, houses went to 100 AMP services. Now 150 and 200 AMP services are common in homes. Depending on size, specific requests or special needs they can be even larger. The individual circuits and number of circuits are based on what loads are anticipated depending on the specific area of the house they serve. Typically the kitchen has been an area where multiple 20 AMP circuits are used. These assumptions continue to evolve as demands change.

So, knowing the exact anticipated loads up front is an advantage and allows for a more exact design approach. That allows for adequate power without spending money on overkill.

 

[Sparky617]

For normal household wiring the outlets average out on each circuit. Where you can get into trouble is if you have a real PC gamer type with multiple computers and old CRT monitors all on one circuit. Or a big audiophile/home theater set up. With LED flat panels the current draw is much lower now than it was 10-15 years ago with CRTs. In the kitchen things like microwaves, dishwashers and refrigerators have dedicated circuits and multiple 20amp circuits for the kitchen. You can get into trouble if you are running an Instant Pot, Toaster Oven, and other heating type appliances all at once on the same 20 amp circuit. Load calculations really matter for the big stuff: electric dryers, electric car chargers, HVAC systems, water heaters. In the shop things like welders and stationary powertools come into play. If it is just a homeonwer with a table saw, joiner, planer, lathe, drill press, miter saw he will probably never have a problem even if they were all in the same circuit if he never has more than one tool running at a time. Have some people over and run them all at the same time and he'll be tripping breakers.

With your sound stage the equipment will all be in use at the same time.

 

[slownsteady]

Good thought about car chargers. They will be in demand in the coming years.

 

[bud16415]

Good thought about car chargers. They will be in demand in the coming years.

That is an excellent point. It also goes to point out the current coming to our homes is not an infinite supply. Just like we can’t over load a circuit in our home without blowing something The demand of million and million of cars could likely brake the back of the power grid. It is a simple math calculation to convert the gasoline used today in propelling cars down the road to kilowatts of electricity that would be needed. As long as we keep burning fossil fuels to make electric or to power our cars it will be somewhat a wash I think other than what it will take to upgrade the grid and then upgrade our homes to handle the extra load. It’s just doing the same thing in a different way.



Now if we don’t use those fuels to make electricity then it takes a turn. That leaves wind, solar, nuclear and hydro. Nuclear is the easiest maybe but not likely followed by building dams for hydro also not to likely. So wind and solar is what gets talked about along with batteries to keep the power to fill the grid.

It will be something to watch build out for sure

 

[afjes_2016]

The main issue here is basically that when an electrician is contracted to wire a home the electrician will ask for a list of appliances etc that will be in the home other than the normal circuits. I know I did.

There is a distinct difference in determining the power needed for a home that will have the normal, electric range, electric dyer, electric (tank) hot water heater compared to a home that will have electric heat furnace, high demand tankless hot water heater etc. Also the square footage, number of bathrooms, size of kitchen (appliances) etc. Any electrician who has wired a house knows what I mean.

We can easily say that if a home has basic appliances such as electric dyer, electric range and tank hot water heater and that will be it we know what the demand will be without having to do much of a sit-down load calculations. Add in the larger demand appliances etc then a load calculation would be advisable.

I wired a three family house once by myself. Three floors. The very first thing I did was sit down with the owner (landlord-it was a recon from a fire) and plan out the wiring needs for each unit. Each unit was also unique. Units ranged from a studio to a three bedroom.

So it really is not cut-and-dry when it comes to wiring a home.

 

[Sparky617]

That is an excellent point. It also goes to point out the current coming to our homes is not an infinite supply. Just like we can’t over load a circuit in our home without blowing something The demand of million and million of cars could likely brake the back of the power grid. It is a simple math calculation to convert the gasoline used today in propelling cars down the road to kilowatts of electricity that would be needed. As long as we keep burning fossil fuels to make electric or to power our cars it will be somewhat a wash I think other than what it will take to upgrade the grid and then upgrade our homes to handle the extra load. It’s just doing the same thing in a different way.



Now if we don’t use those fuels to make electricity then it takes a turn. That leaves wind, solar, nuclear and hydro. Nuclear is the easiest maybe but not likely followed by building dams for hydro also not to likely. So wind and solar is what gets talked about along with batteries to keep the power to fill the grid.

It will be something to watch build out for sure

Serious greens know that nuke is going to be required to provide the base load. Unicorn flatulence isn't going to power our increasingly electric world. Without massive battery banks wind and solar can't carry the load 7x24, in northern regions you don't get enough sun during the short winter days to store much.

Our church looked at installing solar panels this year. Even covering every square foot of the flat roof we couldn't get more than 50% of our power off of solar. The economics just didn't add up since we're a non-profit and don't benefit from tax credits for solar. This was with a grant from the local utility. We're also in the relatively sunny southern US.

I'm planning on wiring a 50amp circuit into my garage for an eventual EV. I'm pulling the permits for my basement and will include the EV outlet with that work. Even if I don't get an EV while I own this place it is very likely someone will in the next 5-10 years. At this point we intend to stay here for the foreseeable future.

 

[bud16415]

Serious greens know that nuke is going to be required to provide the base load. Unicorn flatulence isn't going to power our increasingly electric world. Without massive battery banks wind and solar can't carry the load 7x24, in northern regions you don't get enough sun during the short winter days to store much.

Our church looked at installing solar panels this year. Even covering every square foot of the flat roof we couldn't get more than 50% of our power off of solar. The economics just didn't add up since we're a non-profit and don't benefit from tax credits for solar. This was with a grant from the local utility. We're also in the relatively sunny southern US.

I'm planning on wiring a 50amp circuit into my garage for an eventual EV. I'm pulling the permits for my basement and will include the EV outlet with that work. Even if I don't get an EV while I own this place it is very likely someone will in the next 5-10 years. At this point we intend to stay here for the foreseeable future.

Agree.



There is also the cost and energy in converting energies. I worked for GE for 43 years and we built wind units in my plant for a few years until the company told us to stop competing with our branch in China. There is nothing simple or cheap in producing any of this green stuff. We were also getting into huge battery setups for the power grid and that technology is really out there. I remember reading once a long time ago it took as much energy to make a solar cell as it would produce in its life. I’m sure that is no longer true but there is still some trade off.



Cash for clunkers was a good example of well intended programs. The energy waste of taking a car out of service in that the energy to build it was already out there and the replacement needs to be built it was much smarter to just let them die of old age.

I have a 100a circuit to my garage so I guess it would be easy to hook one up. I have it for the workshop and welder.

 

[afjes_2016]

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And in the meantime we have not heard from the OP since Nov 6th.

I guess we will never find out what type of equipment/lighting will be used so we won't be able to advise on the needs.

Oh Well

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[Sparky617]

I’ve got the same setup. I actually added another 100-watt panel for a little extra power.

I assume you mean 100 amp, 100 watts wouldn't be enough for a couple of light bulbs.

 

[afjes_2016]

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rickermilers

First welcome to the forum

I’ve got the same setup. I actually added another 100-watt panel for a little extra power.

We assume you mean 100amps

Just a little friendly information - unfortunately adding a panel does not give you extra power to use - only more circuit spaces. Upgrading your incoming "Service Entrance" and main panel/disconnect will give you extra power.


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