New ceiling light question.

So I installed a new ceiling light in my living room, used 14/3 (red not used) wire to drop down to my kitchen / dining room switches.
The kitchen and dining room lights are controlled by a single double switch. There is one free hot black common wire in the switch box from when they installed the double switch.
My question is how do I wire the new ceiling light into the existing box? I connected the black common wire to the free hot common black wire in the box, added the green ground wire to the existing double switch green ground screw. But what do I do with the white wire?
I will be using a new switch that has two black wires and a green ground wire.
Here’s a quick drawing of what I’m talking about, no my 7 year old did not draw it. JK!
Thanks. View attachment Paper.Paper Tools.2.jpg

Tell us about all the wire in the box.
A loose black just sitting there unused does mean it will work for you new fixture.
Are there any white connected together in the box?
What wires are connected to the other switches?

JoeD said:

Tell us about all the wire in the box.
A loose black just sitting there unused does mean it will work for you new fixture.
Are there any white connected together in the box?
What wires are connected to the other switches?

Click to expand...

Thanks Joe, two wires drop down to the switch box. One is a two wire cable with a black (free now) and a white wire controlling the dining room lights. The other one is a three wire cable with a green, white and black wire controlling the kitchen lights.
I installed the double switch using the black wire and green wire from the three wire cable and used the white wires from each light to connect to the switch. That switch works perfect now so I figure I did that part right. That leaves me with the free common wire.

What you have in that box, are only switch legs, with the hot pairs in the fixture boxes.

A hot pair is, generally, a black and a white conductor, the black being the hot of the pair. Depending on the age of the house you may not have a ground conductor in each romex.

The free black conductor you are referring to a "common", is the hot conductor from that fixture.

You can switch the new fixture, but you need to be entrepreneurial to do that.

You pigtail from the black connected to the common switch to one of the blacks of the new switch. You then remove the fixture connected to the romex with the "free" black conductor, when you have this ceiling box open you will find that that black is connected to the hot pair, you then disconnect that black from the hot, and connect that black to the grouped whites. Then at the switch box you connect the black from the 14/3 to the other black from the new switch, and you connect the white from the 14/3 to the "free" black.

If you didn't get lost, the new fixture should work.

Thank you Snoonyb, I understand most of your instructions but kind of lost on the fixture box wiring. Right now the fixture Green, White and Black are connected to the 14/3 Green, White and Black wire. When I disconnect the black wire from the fixture and connect it to the grouped whites what happens to the black from the 14/3 wire?
One last question, the green ground wire from the new switch and the 14/3, do I group them together with the existing switch green or just group the new switch with the new 14/3? In the fixture box I grouped the green of the 14/3 and the fixture wire and also grounded them out to the new metal fixture box.

Just to clarify, 14/2 with a grnd. is referred to as 14/2 & grnd., because the current carrying conductors are the numerical identifiers.

From post #3; "One is a two wire cable with a black (free now) and a white wire controlling the dining room lights."

This is the fixture I was referring to, which does not have a grnd. conductor, and is referred to as just 14/2.

Where the kitchen fixture is wired with a newer class of romex and is 14/2 & grnd.

The dining room fixture should be connected with the white from the dbl. switch to the fixture black, do not disturb this connection. The white from the fixture should connect to the grouped whites, and this is where you connect the "free" black conductor.

Snoonyb said:

Just to clarify, 14/2 with a grnd. is referred to as 14/2 & grnd., because the current carrying conductors are the numerical identifiers.

From post #3; "One is a two wire cable with a black (free now) and a white wire controlling the dining room lights."

This is the fixture I was referring to, which does not have a grnd. conductor, and is referred to as just 14/2.

Where the kitchen fixture is wired with a newer class of romex and is 14/2 & grnd.

The dining room fixture should be connected with the white from the dbl. switch to the fixture black, do not disturb this connection. The white from the fixture should connect to the grouped whites, and this is where you connect the "free" black conductor.

Click to expand...

Ok, I think this should be left to a pro, really lost. I thought all the re wiring was go be made at the new fixture box that I know since I installed it.
Thanks again.

Just read your edit, I’ll try to make sense of it now.

Also, before you button things up there are a couple of things son that you don't have to rely on memory, and others can easily Identify whats going on.

Well, calling a pro in. Anyone in San Diego up for the job?

Could you elaborate on where the difficulties lie?

Snoonyb said:

Could you elaborate on where the difficulties lie?

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Just not sure where to do the changes, I mean you explain it pretty well but to someone like me that has no knowledge of how everything works is kind of confusing. I was hoping the changes were just in the switch box and the new fixture box. I’m more of a diagram guy I guess. But I do appreciate your time.

tacoeater said:

Just not sure where to do the changes, I mean you explain it pretty well but to someone like me that has no knowledge of how everything works is kind of confusing. I was hoping the changes were just in the switch box and the new fixture box. I’m more of a diagram guy I guess. But I do appreciate your time.

Click to expand...

There are actually two ways to have accomplished it, and the one I described keeps you out of the attic.

So now I'll tell you that which requires time on your hands and knees, in the attic.

Somewhere in the attic, hopefully, will be a 4s "J" box where the hot pairs for the light fixtures "J" box from. From there you can connect a 14/2, a new hot pair, to the new fixture box. You connect the black from the 14/2 too the black from the 14/3 running to the switch box, At the switch box you connect the black to 1 of the blacks on the switch and connect the red from the 14/3 too the other black from the switch.

At the fixture box you connect the red too the fixture black and the white to the white from the new hot pair.

If the 4s "J" box does not exist or is disproportionately dislocated, the other option is to open an existing fixture box and pull the hot pair from there.

A couple of cautions; Do not simply stuff the conductors into a wirenut and hope, always twist all connections together prior to installing the wirenuts.

When you use the white conductor to power a fixture, wrap a piece of black tape on both ends, which identifies it as a hot.

Safe-off all unused conductors with a wirenut.

If you have a VOM, Volt, Ohm Meter, and there are inexpensive options, you can Identify the presence of 240V in a junction or switch box and avert a disaster.

I hadn't gotten to the new fixture yet, because of the detail.

All of the connections were in the switch box and the dining Rm. ceiling box, so there was a path to power the new fixture.

Sounds like you have two switch loops which means no neutral. Were all four of the original wires connected to the original double switch.
Ignore the green and bare ground wires.

JoeD said:

Sounds like you have two switch loops which means no neutral. Were all four of the original wires connected to the original double switch.
Ignore the green and bare ground wires.

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Yes, originally there were two switches, one for the kitchen and one for the diner. Since I didn’t want to cut in a 3 gang box I went with the double switch and added a second switch for the living room in the same 2 gang box. One switch (kitchen) originally had the 3 wires and the second one (diner) had the 2 wires. Took the 3 wire black and green wires and one white from both to make the double switch work, leaving me with one free hot wire.

You had two switch loops. There is no neutral in that box to use for your new fixture. You must find a power source before you can connect you new fixture.

Ok guys, I finally jumped right in to get it done. I removed the diner fixture like Snoonyb said I found the grouped white as the 3 taped up and the one I’m suppose to join to them is the one going to the switch from the two grouped ones shown. Correct so far? I then reattach the other remaining two wires to the fixture again. Correct? I probed the wires and the single wire is the live hot one. I’ll wait for ok before proceeding.
Thank you.
View attachment IMG_9645.jpg

tacoeater said:

Ok guys, I finally jumped right in to get it done. I removed the diner fixture like Snoonyb said I found the grouped white as the 3 taped up and the one I’m suppose to join to them is the one going to the switch from the two grouped ones shown. Correct so far? I then reattach the other remaining two wires to the fixture again. Correct? View attachment 18645
I’ll wait for ok before proceeding.
Thank you.

Click to expand...

That's the old cloth wrapped romex w/o a ground.

Are you working with the breaker off? If not you should be.

Of the two twisted conductors, they need to be separated and the one that ends in the switch box, connected to the whites, and the other, which is the hot, wirenuted and left that way.

You may be able to easily determine which of the romex's are which, and if not you need a VOM.

At the switch box connect the "FREE" black to the white from the 14/3 of the new fixture, the black pigtail from the double switch to the new switch for the new fixture and the black of the 14/3 to the new fixture to the other black of the new switch.Wirenut the red of the 14/3.

Snoonyb said:

That's the old cloth wrapped romex w/o a ground.



Are you working with the breaker off? If not you should be.



Of the two twisted conductors, they need to be separated and the one that ends in the switch box, connected to the whites, and the other, which is the hot, wirenuted and left that way.



You may be able to easily determine which of the romex's are which, and if not you need a VOM.



At the switch box connect the "FREE" black to the white from the 14/3 of the new fixture, the black pigtail from the double switch to the new switch for the new fixture and the black of the 14/3 to the new fixture to the other black of the new switch.Wirenut the red of the 14/3.

Click to expand...

Yes, power off at breaker box.
If I run the switch one of the two twisted wires to grouped whites and wirenut the remaining one, then what other do I connect to the diner fixture since it will be only leaving me with one wire. Or did you mean to wirenut it to the fixture? I forgot to mention in my original post that that free wire in the switch box is already hot, does that matter?