Adding eaves and soffits

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chefman45887

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I have a home that was built right after WWII, I am in the planning process right now and a year from now install a new metal roof. The roof currently has no eaves or soffit . I want to install 16' overhang on the eaves and soffit. What is the best way to go about this on a existing home. The rafter in the home are 2x6 and are 16 inch on center. Thanks in advance for any input. c9b5a3433d40bb5731dec29b729805ddl-m1xd-w1020_h770_q80.jpg
 

Snoonyb

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Cantilever is 3 too 1, and can be precut and installed from the attic, usually, however, oner the entry porch may be difficult.
 

bud16415

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What kind of metal roofing will you be putting on?



I agree a house looks odd without an overhang on the ends.



I have seen it done where they just build what looks like a ladder from two rafters and short rungs between and attach it on the ends. Normally when that is done the roof sheathing (new construction) laps back to rafters inside the roofed area. They also are not normally that deep an overhang more like 8”.



Others with truss roofs I see them notch the end truss and set in 2x4s flat wise that get end nailed into the next truss over and then the overhang rafter gets nailed into the other end and again the sheathing laps back into the building.



I wouldn’t trust just attaching the ladder to the end and covering it with a strip of sheathing, but it is done I’m sure.

With the existing roofing I would want to open the edge and tie the supports back in to that second rafter and then cover the old edge with sheathing that would cover back at least to that second rafter.
 

chefman45887

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What kind of metal roofing will you be putting on?



I agree a house looks odd without an overhang on the ends.



I have seen it done where they just build what looks like a ladder from two rafters and short rungs between and attach it on the ends. Normally when that is done the roof sheathing (new construction) laps back to rafters inside the roofed area. They also are not normally that deep an overhang more like 8”.



Others with truss roofs I see them notch the end truss and set in 2x4s flat wise that get end nailed into the next truss over and then the overhang rafter gets nailed into the other end and again the sheathing laps back into the building.



I wouldn’t trust just attaching the ladder to the end and covering it with a strip of sheathing, but it is done I’m sure.

With the existing roofing I would want to open the edge and tie the supports back in to that second rafter and then cover the old edge with sheathing that would cover back at least to that second rafter.
Standing seam metal.
 

bud16415

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Looking at your picture again I don’t think you will need 16” to really change the look of the house. 6-8” might be enough and would be much more cost effective.
 

bud16415

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Standing seam metal.
So they will be removing all the shingles and such. Will they be adding another layer of sheathing?

If they will be then I would think a modest overhang ladder feature could be screwed in and tensioned with the new sheathing .

I should add i'm not a pro or a roofer and we have some here that will be along with more advice.
 

chefman45887

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So they will be removing all the shingles and such. Will they be adding another layer of sheathing?

If they will be then I would think a modest overhang ladder feature could be screwed in and tensioned with the new sheathing .

I should add i'm not a pro or a roofer and we have some here that will be along with more advice.

The Menards standing seam they offer, since there is only one layer of shingle on the roof, I can button cap nail siding fanfold panels then install the metal roof (The maker of the roofing product said this is how it should be done). The plankboard currently on the home is in very good shape.
 

Snoonyb

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So they will be removing all the shingles and such. Will they be adding another layer of sheathing?

If they will be then I would think a modest overhang ladder feature could be screwed in and tensioned with the new sheathing .

I should add i'm not a pro or a roofer and we have some here that will be along with more advice.
I wouldn't trust it were there is a snow load, I'd be safe and go with the lookouts, to ensure the varge rafter is supported.
 

bud16415

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Where are you located? The protocol on metal roof seems to be different in different locations around the country. Around here Northern PA a great number of homes including mine started getting agricultural roofing made in an Amish factory near here and mostly applied by Amish workers. Other roofing companies started following the practice. The reason I did it was mostly price as it was less than a shingle job and even though I wasn’t sold on the practice it has been going on for 30 years and I found very few people that had any problems. They leave the existing roof also but they build out a 2x4 flat wise all over the roof first with a row of 2x4s every 2’to screw to. Doing this they have 1.5” air gap for ventilation between the old roofing and the metal. They put a filter fabric top and bottom for bugs that lets air flow and in my case I have an opening in my attic area that vents into the space also. I had a chimney removed at the time and left that opening to add additional venting and I get a cross flow from windows in the ends I open and close with the seasons. My home is cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter after doing the roof. I also had my garage done first this way.



When they first started doing them here they looked odd, but now that every other home has done it they seem common.



What you are suggesting with the fan fold insulation sandwiched tight I haven’t seen yet around here. maybe our roofing experts will comment more on that idea.

As to your overhang on the ends I agree with the above poster snow and just how much overhang will play a part. If you didn’t want to disrupt your roof and wanted to add a ladder overhang of some lesser distance maybe you could get into the attic and string the first 3 rafters together from below and then add the ladder to the house first by nailing and then come back in and drill and bolt it every few feet with a helper or use lags if working alone.
 

oldognewtrick

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I've witnessed so many failures of metal over shingles over the years that there's no way I'd ever have it on my house. The existing shingles under the metal will continue to deteriorate, buckle and cause the roof panels to separate. Leaking can occur and the repair is to clean the roof and start over. The screws have a neoprene washer that will bake and fail after exposure to uv and thermal cycles. The metal panels expand and contract causing the holes to widen. AG panels were not meant for installation over living spaces. Cows and sheep don't mind a drip on their head as the Mrs. will. As Bud said, it's becoming more and more common to see AG panels on homes, I hope you have better luck than some of the failures I've seen over the years.

...just my 2 cents.
 

Snoonyb

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This was our common practice and the flat 2X, lookouts, were spaced to the allowable span of the starter board used, usually 1X6 or 8, T&G or shiplap, over what you are referring to as a ladder, and generally for the aesthetics, @32"oc., with CDX ply for the roof sheeting.

"Others, with truss and slick framed roofs, I see them notch the end truss and set in 2x4s flat wise that get end nailed into the next truss over and then the overhang rafter gets nailed into the other end."

Your roof system is "generally" similar to several of the different metal roof systems, I've seen applied.
 

BuzzLOL

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I have a home that was built right after WWII... The roof currently has no eaves or soffit . I want to install 16' overhang on the eaves and soffit.
The right half of your house looks just like the houses around here that were built inexpensively for returning WWII G.I.s... just a small basic box with no overhangs. My Mom called them "Young houses" as that was the last name of a local builder who put up scads of them quickly. And he was remembered by the ladies as he looked and talked like actor James Garner. My WWII veteran Dad built our house himself, but bigger and more elaborate yet still without overhangs as what seemed to be the style. Later he realized houses look better with overhangs. Then in the 1950's around here, some ranch houses got huge overhangs up to 4' out all around which also looked strange. The roof on the gabled end attached garage of a one story ranch house might end up only about 3' - 4' above the ground. Of course, this created a nuisance as it encouraged kids to jump up and play of the roofs. I couldn't find pictures of examples of such houses online but I know a neighborhood around here that has a lot of them. I did find a picture of a house with a shingled 'wrap around overhang' on the left that became popular about 30 years:
I guess it also has a very low roof edge on the right!
 

chefman45887

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Ventilation with the home was just completed last week. I installed two electric attic fans on the gable ends. The intake air is the front porch that is a 12x12 spaces with vented soffit on it. Location wise I am in Columbus, Ohio. 0505191903.jpg
 

bud16415

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I've witnessed so many failures of metal over shingles over the years that there's no way I'd ever have it on my house. The existing shingles under the metal will continue to deteriorate, buckle and cause the roof panels to separate. Leaking can occur and the repair is to clean the roof and start over. The screws have a neoprene washer that will bake and fail after exposure to uv and thermal cycles. The metal panels expand and contract causing the holes to widen. AG panels were not meant for installation over living spaces. Cows and sheep don't mind a drip on their head as the Mrs. will. As Bud said, it's becoming more and more common to see AG panels on homes, I hope you have better luck than some of the failures I've seen over the years.

...just my 2 cents.
Well she is a dairy farmer so she is used to sleeping with the cows and the water drips so I may have an out.



There is a huge difference between standing seam and the AG corrugated stuff the Amish did for me. As Oldog said mine is exposed screws and the corrugations overlap one full pattern and the tin is away from the old shingles by 1.5 inches. Some folks mostly DIY I have seen slam it tight on top of the old shingles and screw it down. It seems to work but now all those screws are going right straight thru it all plus I really picture a dark roof in contact sending that heat right into the old shingles. Maybe that’s why the fan fold was recommended. Like I said I haven’t seen that here.

I think if I was going to do the real standing seam stuff and planned on adding overhangs at the same time I would take it all off down to the sheathing and even some of the sheathing o the ends to get support for the overhangs and then put the proper recommended underlay for the roofing.
 

chefman45887

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The right half of your house looks just like the houses around here that were built inexpensively for returning WWII G.I.s... just a small basic box with no overhangs. My Mom called them "Young houses" as that was the last name of a local builder who put up scads of them quickly. And he was remembered by the ladies as he looked and talked like actor James Garner. My WWII veteran Dad built our house himself, but bigger and more elaborate yet still without overhangs as what seemed to be the style. Later he realized houses look better with overhangs. Then in the 1950's around here, some ranch houses got huge overhangs up to 4' out all around which also looked strange. The roof on the gabled end attached garage of a one story ranch house might end up only about 3' - 4' above the ground. Of course, this created a nuisance as it encouraged kids to jump up and play of the roofs. I couldn't find pictures of examples of such houses online but I know a neighborhood around here that has a lot of them. I did find a picture of a house with a shingled 'wrap around overhang' on the left that became popular about 30 years:
I guess it also has a very low roof edge on the right!

That is a beautiful house in the link. The main reasoning for the add on is to protect the windows as well as add some shade to them. Also to keep the rain further away from the foundation. As you can see in the picture there is real no overhang. In the attic, this is a 2 inch plywood L nailed into the rafters and aluminium fascia put on the outside. 175389952_481274419661887_1446085017934739989_n.jpg
 

chefman45887

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Back once again with a question with how to flash this intersection of valley with zero eave? My only thoughts are I would think in theory to use a rain diverter on the edge of the metal, would have to be fabbed to to run from one side of the valley to the other like a reverse drip edge of sorts? Say 1 ft to each side of the valley? The gutters are 6".
 

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BuzzLOL

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What ever you do don't add anything that causes the water to back up into a pool on the roof because shingled roofs are NOT 'waterproof'! They work by gravity causing the water to quickly run down off upper shingles onto lower shingles, etc... until the water drops off the edge of the roof/drip edge... into a waterproof gutter or onto the ground...
 

Eddie_T

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I think I would support the gable overhangs with architectural corbels or brackets.

My roof framer didn't follow my laddered gable plan and supported a 32" overhang with a double plate extension. I boxed the plate extension to form a bracket and look like an 8" beam extension. In my area when applying metal roofing over shingles horizontal (1x4) battens are added. The battens will also help support the gable overhang. My roofing has standing seam appearance and no exposed screws. The bottom edge of each 16" panel is hemmed (folded under) to drip edge.
 
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chefman45887

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In a update I went and took off the gutter off the back of the garage and cut out a section of the fascia board to access a existing rafter from the outside. I fabricated a new template and the pitch is 30 degrees or a 7/12 pitch. Now with the length of the extensions I am going for 18". Most I could do to clear the windows as well as wired outside lighting.
 

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