Best Whole House Heat Pump???

[Krich]

I've been looking at heat pumps to try and figure out what is the Best Whole House Heat Pump???

I'm thinking in terms of highest efficiency at cooling and heating but also at not using a lot of electricity

Here's one I was looking at that is supposed to be a good one... it's 18 Seer which is pretty high:

3 Ton Goodman 18 SEER Two Stage Heat Pump System GSZC180361, AVPTC37C14 Variable Speed

Goodman 3.0 Ton 18 SEER Two Stage Heat Pump System GSZC180361, AVPTC37C14 Variable Speed, TXV

GSZC180361, AVPTC37C14 heat pump is Goodman's top-of-the-line models offering ComfortNet capability. Combining a two stage compressor, variable speed motor & outstanding warranty all at a refreshingly affordable price. Thank goodness for Goodman!

www.budgetheating.com

 

[Sparky617]

Depending on the size of the house, you may be better off installing two systems. Especially for two story homes. I actually have three systems in my 3500 square foot home. I'm in the process of finishing the basement and added a dedicated system for the basement. The first floor and second floors each have their own dedicated systems. This makes it much easier to control the temperature on the different floors and eliminates duct runs between floors. The basement and first floor are both approximately 1000 square feet each with the second floor being approximately 1500 square feet. The basement unit doesn't really need to run very often as the basement is very well insulated between the wall insulation and on three sides being earth sheltered.

 

[Krich]

The house itself is single story about 81 feet long by 38 feet wide, so would this be about 3078 square feet? The ceilings will be 9 feet tall

The shop will be walled off from the house itself is 46 feet long 38 feet wide (1748 sq feet)... so I'll have a separate heat pump system and duct work for the shop

 

[jjredmond71]

The house itself is single story about 81 feet long by 38 feet wide, so would this be about 3078 square feet? The ceilings will be 9 feet tall

The shop will be walled off from the house itself is 46 feet long 38 feet wide (1748 sq feet)... so I'll have a separate heat pump system and duct work for the shop

The Goodman unit is a great unit, and the brand tends to be a litlle less expensive due to the company's lack of marketing costs compared to the Yorks and Tranes of the world, but a heat pump will only work well in certain regions of the country. What part of the country do you live? If you happen to live in the northern half of the country, a heat pump will probably not be a great option for you.

 

[Sparky617]

The Goodman unit is a great unit, and the brand tends to be a litlle less expensive due to the company's lack of marketing costs compared to the Yorks and Tranes of the world, but a heat pump will only work well in certain regions of the country. What part of the country do you live? If you happen to live in the northern half of the country, a heat pump will probably not be a great option for you.

Heat p umps have really improved over the last decade or two and can still heat without resorting to "emergency heat" down to below 30F now. That said, if I lived in a cold climate and natural gas wasn't an option, I'd probably go for a ground sourced/geo-thermal heat pump instead of an air to air heat pump. More expensive to install, but much cheaper to operate.

 

[jjredmond71]

Heat p umps have really improved over the last decade or two and can still heat without resorting to "emergency heat" down to below 30F now. That said, if I lived in a cold climate and natural gas wasn't an option, I'd probably go for a ground sourced/geo-thermal heat pump instead of an air to air heat pump. More expensive to install, but much cheaper to operate.

I agree with your idea of geothermal, and yes, heat pumps have come a along way in the past decade, but the cost to run them in terms of astronomical electric rates in the north tend to be a budget-buster for most if there are other choices.

 

[Sparky617]

I agree with your idea of geothermal, and yes, heat pumps have come a along way in the past decade, but the cost to run them in terms of astronomical electric rates in the north tend to be a budget-buster for most if there are other choices.

NY State has banned new natural gas hook ups in some new construction. Good thing solar works so well in the gray winters in upstate.

NY State Bans New Natural Gas

 

[jjredmond71]

NY State has banned new natural gas hook ups in some new construction. Good thing solar works so well in the gray winters in upstate.

NY State Bans New Natural Gas

Yeah, NY is in a world unto its own like Cali; it will be interesting to see how well that works out for them.

 

[Krich]

What part of the country do you live? If you happen to live in the northern half of the country, a heat pump will probably not be a great option for you.

I'm in the deep south where winters are mild.

I'm running in to a quandary..,.. if I have a local HVAC company install the unit, I'm going to pay as much as $5000 more than what I can buy the same unit for online and have it shipped to my door.

I may put an add in the local wants ads for qualified, experienced HVAC technicians... and then tell them I have a side job I'm taking bids on... that way I can buy my own unit, hire an HVAC guy to do the final install (I'll have it physically in place and ready for him to hook up the lines)

That way I won't have to pay ridiculous markups that board on a criminal shake down!

 

[jjredmond71]

I'm in the deep south where winters are mild.

I'm running in to a quandary..,.. if I have a local HVAC company install the unit, I'm going to pay as much as $5000 more than what I can buy the same unit for online and have it shipped to my door.

I may put an add in the local wants ads for qualified, experienced HVAC technicians... and then tell them I have a side job I'm taking bids on... that way I can buy my own unit, hire an HVAC guy to do the final install (I'll have it physically in place and ready for him to hook up the lines)

That way I won't have to pay ridiculous markups that board on a criminal shake down!

It is more criminal to ask a technician who is required by law to have an HVAC license to break said law, so you can save a penny. It can also have major long-term negative effects on the structure if the unit is not sized properly.

Do you know how to properly size an HVAC unit?

 

[Eddie_T]

I think it's a stretch to imply that he might harm his structure. There are readily accessible tables to help with sizing HVAC. I use a PTHP because I could install it myself. It won't cool the whole house (2400 ft²) but it dehumidifies all and cools kitchen, LR and den areas rather well.

 

[Krich]

It is more criminal to ask a technician who is required by law to have an HVAC license to break said law

Where I'm at, there's no state or local laws that says a licensed HVAC guy can't do side gigs.

Some companies charge a fee to come out and look over the building and provide an estimate.

Since I'm paying their fee, I can use the info they provide concerning what size unit I need.

I'll get 2 maybe 3 estimates to make sure I have numerous opinions to work from.

 

[jjredmond71]

I think it's a stretch to imply that he might harm his structure. There are readily accessible tables to help with sizing HVAC. I use a PTHP because I could install it myself. It won't cool the whole house (2400 ft²) but it dehumidifies all and cools kitchen, LR and den areas rather well.

It is not a stretch at all. 3/4 of my career has been as Home Performance Contractor and I have worked in unison with HVAC contractors on my jobs daily. A Manual J and D are required to determine proper load and duct design calcs.

You are describing a system that is undersized; that is not where an HVAC system, if improperly sized, can not only end up with structural issues in the home, but also have an adverse effect on health and comfort.

A Manual J is required by most states to properly size a system and if it is sized too large, as many are, it will short cycle resulting in improper humidity levels, and that leads to mold in the home. Same goes for Manual D for duct design and flow management. These calculations cost money, and loads cannot be determined by tables on the web as there are too many variable that need to be taken into account when running a proper calc.

 

[jjredmond71]

Where I'm at, there's no state or local laws that says a licensed HVAC guy can't do side gigs.

Some companies charge a fee to come out and look over the building and provide an estimate.

Since I'm paying their fee, I can use the info they provide concerning what size unit I need.

I'll get 2 maybe 3 estimates to make sure I have numerous opinions to work from.

I didnt say anything about side gigs. You said you were going to put an ad out to see if a local HVAC tech wants to do a side gig. HVAC techs are not licensed contractors; their company owner or appropriate qualifier is. A tech works under the supervision of an HVAC Contractor, and if it is a side gig, of the clock, there is no supervision, resulting in it being illegal in most states.

 

[Krich]

Not in my state... it's business friendly down here!

If someone has the skills to do good work, they can work.

And, I'm hearing most HVAC companies that come out to provide an estimate don't do a Manual J... they just go by the size of the living area

I'll have to ask them about this Manual J stuff... I'm sure it costs a bundle!

You know, it seems like is a unit was slightly larger than what was needed.... it would be smart enough not to cause humidity issues. Don't they have smart HVAC system now that conform themselves to the space they have to work with?

 

[jjredmond71]

What state are you in?

A Manual J costs a few hundred dollars to run.

Size of a living area to determine a load is 1970's technology, and those homes from that vintage have major problems in terms of mold, standing water, moist crawlspaces, etc.. If an HVAC contractor does not use Manual J to determine a load today, they are a fraud, as it is the universal way to calculate load.

You are not heating and cooling square footage; you are heating and cooling volume...big difference and that does not even account for shade coefficients, the sun exposure (N/S or E/W), how many windows and doors there are, how well the insulation levels in the home is, how leaky the house is, and how much the ducts leak.

Manual J is an ICC code requirement.

 

[Krich]

I'm doing a barndominium and the living area will be right at 2500 square feet and I'm going to use high R value insulation between the studs when we frame out the inside as well as wrap on the inside walls b efore fry wall is put up so it should be fairly air tight.

I'll put this in my notes that I need someone to perform a Manual J test

I'm out in a rural are where the county does not enforce building codes so I'll have to make sure certain standards are kept up on all the different aspects of the job

 

[Eddie_T]

It's not a test just a calculation based upon estimated loads and volume to be heated/cooled. You could get estimates for a tech or engineer to do the calcs or compile the info and do it yourself. There's no magic involved.

 

[Krich]

If I pay an HVAC company to come out and provide and estimate, should they be doing a Manual J ?

I guess I need to ask about that upfront before I pay somebody to do the estimate.

 

[Eddie_T]

What Is the Difference Between Manual J, S, T and D?​

The HVAC system process includes:

• Manual J: Residential Load Calculation
• Manual S: Equipment Selection
• Manual T: Air Distribution Basics
• Manual D: Residential Duct Systems

ACCA Manual J is the first step and involves calculating the residential load. This stage impacts the remaining Manual processes. ACCA Manual S helps you select the right equipment for the job and relies on the calculation from using Manual J. ACCA Manual T involves sizing registers and grilles, and ACCA Manual D focuses on supply duct systems and registers.

Understanding Calculations for Manual J, S, T and D | MRCOOL

The Air Conditioning Contractors of America (ACCA) has developed standards and protocols for designing and installing HVAC equipment and duct work. Properly designed HVAC systems must go through the process of each of the four protocols — J, S, T and D. A correct Manual Calculation leads to a...

mrcool.com