C
Chris
Guest
I wish more people here in the US knew this.
Canada takes top spot
- Thread starter nealtw
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I wish more people here in the US knew this.
slownsteady
Well-Known Member
You pay for lunch whether you eat it or not.
Thats thinking like an individualist I was talking in modern terms as a collectivist.
Look at the UK for healthcare. We pay through taxes and have a great system. The fact you have to have medical insurance is ridiculous. Don't get me wrong the NHS has problems and is criminally underfunded, but it's nice being able to get treatment for free no matter what your circumstances. Albeit it's not entirely free as it comes from taxes
Actually, in the study recently cited by Newsweek, UK system ranked #1.
http://www.newsweek.com/united-states-health-care-rated-worst-637114
http://www.newsweek.com/united-states-health-care-rated-worst-637114
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Chris
Guest
We still have to be better than some third world countries?
nealtw
Contractor retired
Which one????????? They don't have fake news, so you will never know.
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS
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Chris
Guest
I'm thinking better than one with no news. Be sure no news is better than fake news
Shows you the quality of it if it's still underfunded and comes out best. The quality is second-to-none, but the UK simply needs more doctors and nurses, it's as simple as that. Our ranking may slip post-brexit if we can't attract nurses to the country. Big IF, but still a cause for concern.
Look at the UK for healthcare. We pay through taxes and have a great system. The fact you have to have medical insurance is ridiculous. Don't get me wrong the NHS has problems and is criminally underfunded, but it's nice being able to get treatment for free no matter what your circumstances. Albeit it's not entirely free as it comes from taxes
If taxing and paying for health care is a good plan why not keep going into other areas of human life. Why not increase taxes more and provide housing for all. Homelessness is is a major problem also and homelessness causes people to suffer. Give everyone a nice home say 1500 sq ft. Food is another important thing to peoples wellbeing additional taxes on everyone could provide food for all. Why stop with food and shelter without cloths people wouldnt survive tax everyone a bit more and all your clothes would be free. We need water, electricity and heat so it goes without saying those should be provided by the government also. That covers most of the things everyone is entitled to except maybe an automobile, if not at least public transportation should be a right payed by the government from taxes.
If they can do a good job with healthcare I think the rest of these things should be easy for the government to take care of.
The United states was founded on a crazy idea of individual freedoms and people taking care of themselves and the ones around them and government as much as possible staying out of peoples choices. It was an experiment the founders even said that. It was a society of max freedom and hard choices. People came here to escape repression and be able to make their own choices about living or dyeing as they see fit. It was never intended to be easy, but it was equally fair for all. The experiment worked pretty good for a couple hundred years and a lot of progress came about during that time. There was a time when the rest of the world envied our system as flawed as it was.
You are correct medical insurance is ridiculous. It should all be free. We need more countries where the government controls every aspect of our lives. It would just be so much easier. :thbup:
You realise how illogical your argument is right? You've literally just used a straw man argument to speak out against having a large state - something which the UK does not have. A lot of the things you speak about require choice. Energy providers, food, homes. They all vary in standard and quality.
Do you honestly believe that healthcare should? This is something which affects everyone EQUALLY. It's not like food where people have different tastes, or houses, which vary in size and design according to individual choice and affordability.
If you speak to anyone in the UK, they are proud of their healthcare system and are abhorred by the nature of the US system. How can a country which claims to be the leader of the free world enslave their people to unaffordable health insurance.
Sarcasm is also the lowest form of wit FYI.
oldognewtrick
In memory of
MeT, I'm not speaking for Bud, he's very capable of doing that for himself. If you don't see the satire of his response, you need to go back and reread it. ie, tongue in cheek...
Apologies if so. I've come across people with that exact viewpoint before so it isn't always clear - especially on an internet forum!
oldognewtrick
In memory of
Well, I agree with buds statements cause I don't have a Lear Jet and always wanted one. Other people have them and its not fair I don't have one. The govt should give one to everyone who wants one. Just think of the traffic gridlock that would be eliminated if everyone had Lear Jets....
We are a sarcastic lot here in the states, sorry for my sarcasm on the topic.
One of our freedoms is freedom of speech. Back on July 4, 1776 we decided to try something untried before. We have also had the freedom to leave and join any country we like and will have us as long as we are not wanted here for crimes. Many have and if I wanted a Free healthcare for all system Im sure the UK would have me but I could just travel a few miles to the north of where I live and Canada would take me in. I dont see a mass exodus of people. In fact if we have any problem it is people wanting to come here for the American dream.
You mentioned choice in food and housing and all the things I stated sarcastically I also want choice and competition in the selection process. Many of us want choice and selection in our healthcare in the very same way. Free markets and competition when left to work it has been proven bring out the best results. You can disagree with if you want, about half the people that live here now do. We are a global experiment but we are also a local experiment within ourselves state to state.
America is folding in on its beliefs on these matters, and you may be right even I dont have a crystal ball to the future. All I know is we became the leader of the free world from nothing in a couple hundred years doing things one way, and now the direction of things are turning another direction.
As stupid as it sounds to you and me there are people that want less healthcare or no healthcare and are willing to trade that off to keep more of what they earn. Healthcare is out of control in this country. Costs have gone thru the ceiling. If the government goes to a one-payer system they should be ready to then take over the drug industry and the treatment industry as well as thats where all the cost is coming from not the insurance industry. They are a reactionary industry that has little abilities to control the costs of healthcare. They push back and in the end have to charge us more. Im not defending insurance companies as they skim off a tiny slice of the money on the way thru and if costs go up their slice gets a little larger.
Thats just my opinion and I could be wrong.
I enjoyed reading your incredibly response. No, we're sarcastic here too, it's just my fault for not getting it!
You raise a very good point about Canada. Then again, I imagine areas of the US are a lot more pleasant to live in. At a basic level, climate is important and trust me when I say living in cold, miserable weather isn't fun. Saying that, I think Canada is far nicer than here.
Well I think your point about free market economies is up for debate. I think like many things, I see how it should work, and could work, but I'm of the view that there is an inherent greed in humans - not all - but some. I've always liked the quote of Lord Action: "power corrupts, absolutely power corrupts absolutely". I think you could sometimes apply the same thought to capitalism at times. Don't get me wrong, I like the overall system, but I think there are faults which individuals take advantage of.
The US is, I believe, one of the most intriguing countries on the planet. The federal and state system is truly remarkable - I couldn't imagine anything like it over here. But then again, we're not as big!
Thanks for your insight though, much appreciated. You're right, I've forgotten about pharma too. Then again, it is a dilemma because I appreciate they have to make money from the amount of research etc that they put in to developing drugs. It's all a very complicated system.
From another manner of thinking, our improvements in healthcare have enabled people to live longer which has put extra strain on the world. Maybe expensive insurance isn't so bad
Now THAT'S sarcasm :rofl:
I enjoyed reading your incredibly response. No, we're sarcastic here too, it's just my fault for not getting it!
You raise a very good point about Canada. Then again, I imagine areas of the US are a lot more pleasant to live in. At a basic level, climate is important and trust me when I say living in cold, miserable weather isn't fun. Saying that, I think Canada is far nicer than here.
Well I think your point about free market economies is up for debate. I think like many things, I see how it should work, and could work, but I'm of the view that there is an inherent greed in humans - not all - but some. I've always liked the quote of Lord Action: "power corrupts, absolutely power corrupts absolutely". I think you could sometimes apply the same thought to capitalism at times. Don't get me wrong, I like the overall system, but I think there are faults which individuals take advantage of.
The US is, I believe, one of the most intriguing countries on the planet. The federal and state system is truly remarkable - I couldn't imagine anything like it over here. But then again, we're not as big!
Thanks for your insight though, much appreciated. You're right, I've forgotten about pharma too. Then again, it is a dilemma because I appreciate they have to make money from the amount of research etc that they put in to developing drugs. It's all a very complicated system.
From another manner of thinking, our improvements in healthcare have enabled people to live longer which has put extra strain on the world. Maybe expensive insurance isn't so bad
Now THAT'S sarcasm :rofl:
I always think of an analogy I made up in my mind. Suppose a smart fellow comes up with a great idea to say cure any one of the major killers be it heart or lets say cancer. He comes up with a 100% successful cure for cancer. He goes thru all the processes and passes with flying colors and gets approval for every country in the world. Now this chap is a truly great guy and he wants to make no profit for his work he just wants to rid the world of cancer once and for all. So all of science gets behind the idea and try as they can they can produce the cure for every person with cancer but the process of making this new drug can just not be brought down and even though just one pill will stop and reverse all cancer the cost of that pill has to be set at one million dollars. We have a system of universal health care and everyone in the country has free healthcare. Opera Winfred and Bill Gates and thousands of other multimillionaires are elated they will never have to die from cancer. But what about the masses with their free healthcare coverage. We must raise taxes as there are millions of people needing the cure that dont have millions of dollars to pay themselves. But there is never going to be enough people working even if we took all their money as taxes to pay for those that need it. Even if we taxed Bill Gates 100% of what he has it wouldnt amount to a drop in the bucket we need. The government could print more money thats what they do now when they dont have enough. Im pretty sure Germany tried that before WW1 that didnt work to well. It is a catch 22 as you can see.
Healthcare is very much to some extent what I described above only a million lesser examples rather than one big one. Our system worked pretty well when the majority of employers offered healthcare as a benefit, and all a benefit really is a different type of pay. The economy was growing and jobs were abundant and it was a feeding frenzy of consumption and marketing and growth and everyone was working to improve their own situation and with work and GDP there was enough left over for healthcare. People didnt see it as a tax the government wasnt involved at all except for the few poor souls that couldnt work and needed help. Most of the time it was communities that helped those that needed help not the government.
All those greedy scoundrels like Edison and Ford were making millions but they were also causing the tide to rise and a rising tide has a way of lifting all ships.
Now we interject government in the middle and if you work or not you have the right to healthcare and many other things. We havent applied efficiency to health care like Ford did in his factories because he knew he had to have a product the people he employed could afford. All the checks and balances of free enterprise no longer apply and we see governments as bottomless pits of money. They are not as they are simply just us.
slownsteady
Well-Known Member
Here 'ya go, Bud...................
I have 33 working days until I retire. I think I will look into retiring in Canada and get all the bennies.
I wont need a soap box up there.
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Chris
Guest
I bet they won't give them to you because you didn't pay in........
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