Counter Beam Sizing

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bud16415

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I made it back from Alaska! Bearly . . .
We have at least one black bear here and its been dumping the neighbors bird feeder every night and last week it was reported to be up town. They are scary enough but those monsters you ran into really would have had my heart pounding. I make sure I make some noise when I’m heading to the garage at night.



Looks like you had a fun summer. Thanks for posting the movies.
 

zannej

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Ron, it is great to see the progress you've made. I had no clue about anything to be able to offer any advice or input. I'm glad you got things worked out. The popcorn ceiling removal method looks great. Made it look very easy. What was that contraption? I know there was a vaccuum, but what was the scraper thingy?
Love the doggies on page 2 looking at the new steps!
Great job!
 

Ron Van

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zannej

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Sweet! I don't actually have popcorn ceiling but I watch DIY programs and see them struggling to remove the stuff and this looks so cool. If I ever do end up somewhere with popcorn ceilings and feel compelled to strip it, I know what tool to use. Too bad it can't make my pegboard looking ceiling tiles not look ugly. LOL.
 

zannej

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The laminated beam looked nice!
Also, I'm glad it looks like your microwave is at least 30" above the stovetop as per code. Some people put them too low. Nice kitchen!
 

zannej

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I think my friend may have used one of the can-less lights in a trailer but I can't remember for certain.

Ceiling looks great. Love the dining area. Nice table and chairs and cabinet behind.
 

Ron Van

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I was wondering about the can-less lights because a guy told me that he knew someone that had a light fail and it got real hot. The lights I bought say they are approved for contact with insulation in the attic. Heat would not be a good thing but I never had a LED heat up like that.
 

zannej

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For peace of mind you might want to use some sort of insulation tape or create some barrier so the insulation won't directly touch it if you're worried about it. Better safe than sorry.

That's a good-sized table but I like it. Does it have an extra leaf to go in it? The various cabinets & furniture pieces look like the type my family likes. We have a similar china cabinet in the front room. Those ceiling fans with the fake leaves never looked good in the store but they look good in this room. (Sorry, I know this wasn't meant to critique your house and decor but I love it).

I've found that the lights themselves don't get hot, but where the metal touches the connection for power it gets warmer/hot on LED bulbs. If it were me, I'd use some sort of barrier between the light & the blown insulation just to be on the safe side. The kind of insulation used to keep heat from dishwashers from messing up cabinets might be good. Or just some duct insulation tape.
 

Ron Van

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I got four lights in today. Twelve more to go!

I had to be careful though. I experimented a little and found that if the canless lights are closer to the ceiling fan blades than 20”, the light will create a strobe effect on the floor when the fan is on.
AB7CFFDD-4FF7-4496-ABC3-3B8F42FFFAD9.jpeg
 

Ron Van

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For peace of mind you might want to use some sort of insulation tape or create some barrier so the insulation won't directly touch it if you're worried about it. Better safe than sorry.

If it were me, I'd use some sort of barrier between the light & the blown insulation just to be on the safe side. The kind of insulation used to keep heat from dishwashers from messing up cabinets might be good. Or just some duct insulation tape.
Yes, I hear what you are saying. The paperwork for the lights claim they are suitable for IC (meaning insulation contact). To have the IC rating, the light is supposed to have circuitry to detect a high heat situation (probably by amperage draw) and shut itself down. I guess I have to decide if it’s worth worrying about it or not. Our old house had recessed cans that originally had 60w incandescent bulbs in they that really got hot. I should have worried about them more than these new 9w LEDs. But I still wouldn’t mind having something over the LED lights to keep insulation from falling out if I have to take one out for some reason. I was thinking of some kind of fireproof foam enclosure that I could make out of something. They make enclosures but they cost more than metal IC cans.
 

Eddie_T

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You're right the IC rating is to ensure that the fixture is able to dissipate its operating heat not to protect the insulation. I think I would trust the rating with no worries.
 

Ron Van

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For peace of mind you might want to use some sort of insulation tape or create some barrier so the insulation won't directly touch it if you're worried about it. Better safe than sorry.

I've found that the lights themselves don't get hot, but where the metal touches the connection for power it gets warmer/hot on LED bulbs. If it were me, I'd use some sort of barrier between the light & the blown insulation just to be on the safe side. The kind of insulation used to keep heat from dishwashers from messing up cabinets might be good. Or just some duct insulation tape.


In doing a little research, I went to the building supply near by and the guy suggested using EPS foam board to build an enclosure. I told him my biggest objective was to build some kind of enclosure to keep the rockwool insulation from falling out if I ever remove the LED light. The EPS foam board says it is a "TYPE IV PREMIUM FIRE RATED INSULATION". I tried looking that up and I couldn't figure out if it's good or bad but further down in the product literature it does say it has a flame spread of < 25 (which is good) and smoke development of < 450 (which is good).

I then found this video:

Insulation fire.jpg

The products are (from left to right): Sprayed in greatstuff (closed-cell, single part polyurethane foam), Foam insulationboard, Number 3 was RockWool and then Fiberglass with kraft paper backing. In this test, the rockwool did great followed by the fiberglass (the kraft paper burnt off but the fibrglass didn't catch on fire. The foam insulation board (#2) burnt completely and the great stuff wasn't much better.

Another test that shows rockwool, treated Cellulose and Aircrete insulations being the most fireproof although in this test, they also had the kind of spray in foam insulation you would find in homes (not GreatStuff). All the materials did okay but the Aircrete was the best followed by rockwool.

 
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