Easy light switch power question. But I’m dumb....

Discussion in 'Electrical and Wiring' started by dborns, Dec 22, 2019.

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  1. Dec 22, 2019 #1

    dborns

    dborns

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    This is a question I’d normally make a quick phone call to my Dad to answer, but he passed recently so I’m on my own. It should be easy to figure out, but I can’t get it.
    I have a room under my porch. It has a pull chain light on the ceiling, so that box is always hot.
    I removed the pull chain light and installed an outlet for a LED light, but I want to do two other things. I want that light on a switch, and I want to install an outlet that’s always hot, not only when the switch is on.
    So, hot to the only light box, how do I run a switch to that, but also run a wire for a constant hot outlet?
     
  2. Dec 22, 2019 #2

    Snoonyb

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    You can add the recep. to or off the existing hot pair, and add a separate switch leg for the led.
     
  3. Dec 22, 2019 #3

    pjones

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    Turn the power off to the whole house when working on this please. For safety.
     
  4. Dec 22, 2019 #4

    dborns

    dborns

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    Snoonyb, I understand that, but how do I do it?
     
  5. Dec 22, 2019 #5

    Snoonyb

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    What conductors are in the ceiling box?
     
  6. Dec 23, 2019 #6

    bud16415

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    First off sorry to hear about your dad. We never really know how much they helped us until they are no longer here.


    We need to know where you want the switch and where you want the outlet?


    You will have to be able to run a wire from the outlet to the switch box and also to the outlet box. If is outside the whole works needs to be powered from a GFCI breaker or a GFCI outlet that could be located on the ceiling next to the light or in the line feeding the light.


    If getting wires from point A-B and A-C isn’t a problem and figuring out how to get a GFCI into the picture to protect it all and be up to code then we can tackle the wiring.
     
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  7. Dec 23, 2019 #7

    Jeff Handy

    Jeff Handy

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    It sounds like you might be attempting work beyond your level of ability, just a warning.
     
  8. Dec 23, 2019 #8

    dborns

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    Sorry I should have explained that. The hot box is in the ceiling. I want a constant hot outlet run off that on the wall, and obviously a switch just for the light on the opposite wall.
     
  9. Dec 23, 2019 #9

    Jeff Handy

    Jeff Handy

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    The way you do this circuit and switch extension neatly, correctly, and safely, is to hire it out.
     
  10. Dec 23, 2019 #10

    Snoonyb

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    See post #5.
     
  11. Dec 23, 2019 #11

    dborns

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    Black, white, ground.
     
  12. Dec 23, 2019 #12

    dborns

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    It’s easy to run the wall outlet. Just tap into the constant hot that’s going to the box now, I’m just trying to wrap my head around working that outlet in the ceiling as also switched.
     
  13. Dec 23, 2019 #13

    dborns

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  14. Dec 23, 2019 #14

    dborns

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    Sorry for the bad drawing, it’s early. So I have a constant hot, white, and ground at the ceiling box. I removed the pull string bulb and put an outlet in because the LED light has a plug. I want to run off that box to a constant hot outlet, but also want to put the ceiling box on a switch for the light.
     
  15. Dec 23, 2019 #15

    bud16415

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    What I would do is from the hot Jbox in the ceiling I would run 2 new cables to the outlet location one B/W would then be connected to the hot pair in the ceiling with wire nuts and the (Line) side of a GFCI outlet in the wall. The other B/W at the outlet would be connected to the (Load) side of the GFCI outlet and return protected power to the ceiling. You then need to run a cable B/W down to the light switch location connecting both B/W across the switch to the 2 screws. Then in the ceiling connect the black from the (Load) line to your light and the black from your switch to the light and connect the 2 whites together with a wire nut.


    Of course all the green/bare wires go to the green screws and get tied together. Do all the wiring with romex wire and if the walls are open staple the wires to the studs and joist every few feet. If the walls and ceilings are closed in you have to figure out how to fish the wires. The type of Jbox you use is also dependent on if it is new construction or old construction.


    Doing it this way will give you GFCI protection at all porch locations that anyone would be touching outlet and switch.


    As always kill the power at the breaker before starting and check it at the ceiling that it is dead before starting with a meter.
     
  16. Dec 23, 2019 #16

    dborns

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    Understood. But, could you explain without the GFCI in the equation? That’ll clear some confusion for me. This is inside, under the porch. It’s like a sub basement. No need for GFCI protection.
     
  17. Dec 23, 2019 #17

    bud16415

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    That changes things a little. If you have an outlet in the ceiling make it what I call the light above.
     
  18. Dec 23, 2019 #18

    bud16415

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    Basements do require GFCI protection.
     
  19. Dec 23, 2019 #19

    mabloodhound

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    That's a fairly simple job. After turning the breaker off, disconnect the wires to the outlet in the ceiling box. Run a new pair (black/white/grnd) to the wall outlet and this will connect to the b/w/g in the ceiling box. Then run another pair to the switch box. One wire will be connected to the hot black in the box and down to the switch and then back up off the other leg of the switch to the brass screw on the outlet in the ceiling. Run a pigtail off the original hot white wire to the silver screw on the outlet.
    So you end up in the ceiling box having the 3 black wires tied together and the two white wires and a pigtail tied together. The white wire coming back from the switch is actually a hot black wire and should be marked as such. Add wire nuts and close it up.
     
  20. Dec 23, 2019 #20

    Snoonyb

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    So, in connecting a recep. and a switched recep. from a single hot pair, first Identify and secure the breaker controlling the hot pair.

    If the box the hot pair is in is other than a 4x2.125 octagon or a 4x1.50 sq. then you should change it to avoid overfill.

    Locate and mount the box/s for the new recep. and switch.

    Run the new conductors to the appropriate box/s location/s, leaving 6" of the conductors loose on both ends.

    All of the ground conductors understood to be attached to the devices and boxes.

    At the ceiling box group the black from the hot pair, the black to the wall recep. and the white to the switch, twist this group together and install a wire nut.
    Group the white from the hot pair with the white to the wall recep., plus a 6" pigtail, twist and install a wire nut.

    At the wall recep. box install a GFCI by connecting the conductors to the line terminals and grid., close the box.

    At the wall switch wrap the white conductor with black tape and connect to the dark screw, connect the black conductor to the brass screw, close and cover the box.

    At the ceiling box connect the black conductor from the switch to the hot side of the recep., and connect the white pigtail from the white group to the neutral side of the recep., assemble the box, cover and energize the circuit.
     

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