Electrical Socket Sparked

[PghNinja]

I needed to put a remount the socket box to the wall after a cabinet was removed from the wall in the kitchen.

I turned that outlet's circuit off but when I was screwing the bracket onto the wall, the screwdriver sparked (fairly big spark and the tip is blackened)

Is this normal to hold a charge with the circuit off? or have a hot circuit due to other outlets traveling through?

Normal? Or have an electrician scheduled in?

TIA!

 

[Snoonyb]

I needed to put a remount the socket box to the wall after a cabinet was removed from the wall in the kitchen.

I turned that outlet's circuit off but when I was screwing the bracket onto the wall, the screwdriver sparked (fairly big spark and the tip is blackened)

Is this normal to hold a charge with the circuit off? or have a hot circuit due to other outlets traveling through?

Normal? Or have an electrician scheduled in?

TIA!

None of it sounds normal, please post a photo?

 

[jeffmattero76]

If there was a spark, the circuit was not turned off. Is it possible that you made a mistake and turned off the wrong circuit? The other possibility is that you turned 9ff the circuit that fed the receptacle, but a different circuit was also in the same box. As the previous post stated, a picture would be helpful. If you can't do that, tell us how many cables are going into the box, and how many of each color wire are in the box, and how those wires are connected.

 

[bud16415]

The above.

But even if the box had power to it there shouldn’t have been a spark screwing the box to the wall. You could have ran the screw thru another wire coming into the box. power gets shut off but the ground is still a path to ground. If you were using something like a long drywall screw it isn’t to hard to go straight thru a wire with it.

 

[afjes_2016]

I have a feeling it was just simply human error in this case that caused the spark and not a malfunction of the device or electrical system.

Very possible that maybe the wrong circuit was shut off and when fastening the box to the wall the OP may have had the receptacle still connected to the wires at that moment or even the wires hot in the box without the receptacle and one part of the screwdriver touched a hot wire and then shorted out on the ground wire or if a metal box the ground box itself.

We also don't know how many wires there are in the box nor how many circuits run thru the box; shutting off one of two could cause this. It also could have been a split wire receptacle (MWBC) where the two breakers were not tied together leaving one hot wire. At this point too many reasons to believe it was other than a malfunction and more of again human error.

We need more information from the OP before going any further with suggestions. Also maybe possible was a split circuit since in a kitchen and do believe Canada code requires split counter top receptacle circuits.

PghNinja what is your location please?

 

[PghNinja]

Attached is a picture of the outlet. I had a screw in the box through the hole on the backend. The circuit was off. The screwdriver touched a metal part inside the box and created a spark.

 

[jeffmattero76]

Attached is a picture of the outlet. I had a screw in the box through the hole on the backend. The circuit was off. The screwdriver touched a metal part inside the box and created a spark.

I cannot tell from that picture what you are trying to screw into.

First, to screw that metal box to the wall, i would remove the receptacle, screw the box to the wall, and then replace the receptacle.

If the spark happened when your screwdriver touched something inside that box, then there are only two possibilities that I can think of. #1 the circuit was not turned off or #2 the screw you were installing pierced a wire that is behind the wall. There can be more than one circuit in a box, although, from your picture, it appears that only one cable enters that box. Wires cannot spark unless there is current running through them.

 

[afjes_2016]

Ok, before we go much further looking for a problem that may not even exist PghNinja please verify that you have the proper circuit shut off.

According to what I see it looks as though only a x/2 with ground is being used which means more than likely only one circuit in that box. You say you shut that breaker off. How did you verify that it was the proper circuit you shut off? Did you use a meter? Try plugging something into the receptacle after following the same procedure you used the first time shutting off power to that receptacle. After you shut off the power plug something in or if you have a meter use the meter to verify if there is still power present.

Once you have verified that the power was shut off we can go from there. But we can go back and forth many times attempting to help you figure out why there was a spark and just find out later you had shut off the wrong circuit and the box still had power.

If in fact you do find that you shut off the proper breaker then my next conclusion would be (please reference picture) and which has already been mentioned that (red circles) when you went to screw the box back into the wall the pointed end of the screw may have pierced a wire behind the wall of another circuit and the box you are screwing in although the breaker is off is still grounded causing the shorty when the screw pierced the hot wire behind the wall and the screw touch the box causing a dead short. When the spark occurred did any of the breakers trip?

 

[slownsteady]

I'm not a fan of attaching a box to the wall using plastic anchors....prefer no anchors at all. The usual plugging and unplugging, especially if the outlet is snug like it should be, can pull the box loose over time. I would move the box to a location that hits a stud. i know this is not exactly on topic, but it is the right time to address the issue.

 

[afjes_2016]

I agree with you SNS.

PghNinja Please see picture attached. I believe I see a seam in the wall cover material which basically indicates that a stud may be behind this seen. Do yourself a favor and mount what ever you decide to use as a box to this stud for extra "holding" power.

SNS I see your point but sometimes depending on the availability of the extra romex (other than in this case) that is available anchors are needed. But would be better with an old work box such the blue one in the picture.

Meantime until this is answered:

Once you have verified that the power was shut off we can go from there.

We really can't go much further with the troubleshooting.

P.S. On a side note posts that are this old make it difficult for me to follow. I have to re-read everything to know where we last left off. I tend to lose the flow and continuity of the "thought" of the post itself.

P.S.S. I really hate "handy" boxes also.

P.S.S. It also seems that pghninja never comes back (according to past posts) to answer questions or confirm anything or thank, so I guess I am bowing out of this one. I don't get paid enough for this pghninja-sorry.