Exterior wall tongue and groove opinion

[jeepscon]

Hi all,

I need an opinion on some work I had done by a contractor who says it is fine, but I don't think it is.

This is a pine tongue and groove exterior wall installation. My issue is with all the gaps and how they trimmed out the window - flush to the wall instead of raised. Are these gaps normal? The contractor said it's because of the way the boards were cut at the mill, but it seems like the wall isn't weatherproof with gaps this size. There are gaps like this throughout the installation, measuring approximately 1/8"

What is the customary way to trim out a window? Flush like they did, or raised? I think it looks weird they way they did it.

 

[PJB12]

Hi Jeepscon,
I am by no means a finish carpenter. However, I've built and re-built many houses & commercial spaces, so I have some experience with wood and trim (Plus lots of tongue-and-groove- mostly ceilings)
To my eyes, your photos don't look like really great workmanship. I'm sure the contractor did the best that he or she could, but you've got a right to have it corrected to your satisfaction.

About your question of trimming the window flush, I'm not certain I understand. The usual practice is to have the finished wall 1/32" behind the plane of the window frame. This is so the window casing will roll to tight miters. That's why window & door jambs are 4-9/16" instead of 4-1/2". (Or 6-9/16" for 2 x 6 framing)

The between board gaps, I'm not so sure why they are there. Certainly expansion space is needed, but that is at the ends of the boards, not lengthwise. Usually tongue-and-groove are pushed tight with temporary shims during nailing. There is plenty of tongue width to allow expansion & contraction without creating gaps. (In other words, the width of the bead line you see changes with temperature and humidity.)

I'd be concerned about moisture getting through the gaps to the backs of the boards and to the sheathing's covering (tar paper, house wrap, etc.). Out of curiosity, did the installer finish all six sides of the boards? (Paint, varnish or sealer?) This will help if moisture does get behind (Again- The usual practice for outdoor wood.)

You said words about the mill. Was the wood, by chance, from a home center? Lumber that is stored in conditioned spaces often twists, bows or cracks. Tongue-and-groove bows lengthwise easily. (Your ruler shows some of that.)
Often that lumber isn't kiln dried well either. Lumber at lumber yards is stored outside under cover. It's gap-stacked for good air flow.

I hope that some of the above words can help you get the problems rectified in a peaceful manner with the contractor. It'll look great when done!
Paul

 

[Snoonyb]

Welcome.

What product was previously used as the exterior weather protection?

How involved were you, in viewing, the installation process?

Is it your intent to allow the siding to naturally age, or are you planning a paint or stain?

Did the contractor install a building wrap, I ask because in photo #6, It appears that the OSB, isn't covered, which then also begs the question if flashing was installed.

In my practice, when trimming windows with a nailing flange, and depending upon the thickness of the siding, I'll add a 1x filler to the nailing flange, hold the siding relieved 1/8" to 1/4" from the 1x, based upon sun exposure, then add the 1x trim, relieved/stepped 1/8" as a detail.

In my opinion, you have legitimate workmanship concerns, which the contractor needs to address.

 

[jeepscon]

Welcome.

What product was previously used as the exterior weather protection?

How involved were you, in viewing, the installation process?

Is it your intent to allow the siding to naturally age, or are you planning a paint or stain?

Did the contractor install a building wrap, I ask because in photo #6, It appears that the OSB, isn't covered, which then also begs the question if flashing was installed.

In my practice, when trimming windows with a nailing flange, and depending upon the thickness of the siding, I'll add a 1x filler to the nailing flange, hold the siding relieved 1/8" to 1/4" from the 1x, based upon sun exposure, then add the 1x trim, relieved/stepped 1/8" as a detail.

In my opinion, you have legitimate workmanship concerns, which the contractor needs to address.

Welcome.

What product was previously used as the exterior weather protection?

How involved were you, in viewing, the installation process?

Is it your intent to allow the siding to naturally age, or are you planning a paint or stain?

Did the contractor install a building wrap, I ask because in photo #6, It appears that the OSB, isn't covered, which then also begs the question if flashing was installed.

In my practice, when trimming windows with a nailing flange, and depending upon the thickness of the siding, I'll add a 1x filler to the nailing flange, hold the siding relieved 1/8" to 1/4" from the 1x, based upon sun exposure, then add the 1x trim, relieved/stepped 1/8" as a detail.

In my opinion, you have legitimate workmanship concerns, which the contractor needs to address.

Thank you for your input. Unfortunately, I was not involved in the installation process. It was done in one day while we were at work. When we came home, we immediately felt like it wasn't right.

It was a plain board which we also had them stain with an oil-based semi transparent stain. That is a whole other issue; it was done unevenly.

There was Hardie board and batten siding on there before and since I wasn't there I don't know what or if they put wrap down before they put the tongue and groove on. What do you mean by "flashing"? Is that the same thing as a building wrap? I am a total amateur....and that is why I hired someone to do this.

 

[Snoonyb]

Thanks.
In a lot of instances, the installation schedule will not coincide with the receivers work schedule, which would avail some "witnessing" of the process, is why I asked.

Here are a number of videos that explain flashing; https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=how+window+flashing+works&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

In my practice, when installing window flashing, and the windows have a nail flange, after the window is installed, an additional piece of flashing is added across the top, over the nail flange, prior to the house wrap being installed.

When a siding is removed, I add another layer of flashing to seal any damage from the removal process, as well as penetrations caused by nails, staples and screws used in the attachment process.

You should ask for the name of the product used both as the stain as well as the clear-coat, so you can research their durability, and so you'll be able to I.D. when maintenance issues appear.

In my practice, I used only oil based products, unless the cust. ask differently.