Fan only staying on for a few seconds and then shutting off- AC not cooling

[PJB12]

Turns out the coolant was low. They refilled it and let it defrost a bit, water came pouring out the condensate line. It's now nice and cool inside.
Cost $400 for the trip and the coolant, but its worth it to have it be so much cooler inside.

Glad to hear it's working!
Out of curiosity, where was the refrigerant leak located?

 

[havasu]

Yeah, a freon leak is a constant issue, unless the leak is found. I once had a 5 gallon size container of R22, and needed to refill my system once a month until I purchased a new unit.

 

[PJB12]

Yeah, a freon leak is a constant issue, unless the leak is found. I once had a 5 gallon size container of R22, and needed to refill my system once a month until I purchased a new unit.

Are you saying the technician didn't find & fix the leak?
That's not good for the environment, nor for your wallet- especially if it's R-22.

If there is a leak, one thing you can do is to get some leak detector bubbles and wipe the stuff on pipe joints and fittings. Big Blu is great. It makes big cocoons around the leaks.
You can make your own by adding glycerine to dish soap- or buy kids' Bubble Stuff.

Unfortunately, bubbles won't help if the leak is buried in a coil. For that, you need an electronic leak detector or dye. Electronic leak detectors aren't expensive online. (If you still have R-22, a halide torch will work. If you have R-290, don't use a halide torch. R-290 is flammable.)

Once you find the leak, you can show the technician on the next service call (or make a new call).

 

[zannej]

to clarify: The leak source was never detected. The unit was made in 2022 and was installed last year (I think) or early this year... Have to go back in the thread to find the info on it. I suspect any leak is not on the outside unit's side but on the inside unit's side.
I have no clue where to even look.

I don't know what type of coolant it uses. It's a Trane XR or something. I'll dig up the model number.
TRANE 4TWR4060G1000AC.

R410A refrigerant is what google says it uses.

 

[PJB12]

to clarify: The leak source was never detected. The unit was made in 2022 and was installed last year (I think) or early this year... Have to go back in the thread to find the info on it. I suspect any leak is not on the outside unit's side but on the inside unit's side.
I have no clue where to even look.

I don't know what type of coolant it uses. It's a Trane XR or something. I'll dig up the model number.
TRANE 4TWR4060G1000AC.

R410A refrigerant is what google says it uses.

Thanks for clarifying, Zannej. I was confused and appreciate it.

It's unusual that a technician simply did the "Gas And Go" routine. It's pretty much a technician's responsibility to find & repair leaks- if not for the environment but for the customer. Maybe next time you can convince him or her to find the leak and hopefully even fix it.

I hate to see you have to repeatedly spend your hard earned money to fill the system over and over again. It's also hard on the compressor to run with low refrigerant. (First it gets too cold and liquid refrigerant hits the valves and can bend them. When more leaks out, it runs too hot and may damage the windings in the motor.)

Four hundred seems kind of high for "Juice and Goose", especially since R-410a is so cheap. (Last month I paid 3.31/pound for virgin stock in a 25 pound cylinder and for fun I checked Walmart Com just now. $1.97 pound in a 25.)

Since your unit is Trane and from 2022, you're probably correct that it's R-410a. My guess also is since it's from 2022, the leak is in a brazed joint by the installer, not the unit. If it is in a component of the unit, it may still be under warranty. Trane is good about honoring warranties.

Enjoy The Cool!
Paul
PS: I can't imagine being in the south without air conditioning. It was 92-F & misty humid here today. I was working outside all day. This spoiled northern boy can't stand that kind of heat!

 

[havasu]

I had 4 techs try to find the leak. All were unsuccessful. They narrowed it to the coil pack(?), where all the copper wires collect on top of the air handler. They recommended a $1500 replacement. I spent $4k for a new 5 ton unit instead. That unit today is $18k.

 

[zannej]

I wonder if he charged me for the number of people who came with him. There were 3 of them and one was clearly a teenager. I think the teen and the other guy were apprentices. I will note that the other two did not complain about the smell or react to it at all. Only this guy. He's been unprofessional in the past but he's the main guy they send out. I would not be surprised if he charged more $ because of the bad smell. Even though I'd taken the trash out and cleaned the litterboxes, the heat had been warming things up and not helping. The previous time he came out I had used air freshener and carpet freshener but he got there before I was done cleaning up and I hadn't gotten to that yet. He did make it to the hallway near the thermostat but that is where the litterboxes are and then Mewlatto dropped a nasty one in the box right near him and he about threw up. I offered him a mask but he said a mask wouldn't cover it. I've never had anyone else react that badly to the house so I think he's overly sensitive. And I know I'm noseblind to stuff though.

People in this area tend to be very unprofessional. Once I get the place cleaned up more I'm going to see if I can get the people who installed the outside unit to send someone to look for the leak for me. Don't want to deal with this dude being unprofessional-- and he likely would refuse to come out anyway. I'm also going to get a black light and look at the copper tubing going into my AC and in the circulation compartment to see if I spot any signs of leaks.

 

[PJB12]

I wonder if he charged me for the number of people who came with him. There were 3 of them and one was clearly a teenager. I think the teen and the other guy were apprentices. I will note that the other two did not complain about the smell or react to it at all. Only this guy. He's been unprofessional in the past but he's the main guy they send out. I would not be surprised if he charged more $ because of the bad smell. Even though I'd taken the trash out and cleaned the litterboxes, the heat had been warming things up and not helping. The previous time he came out I had used air freshener and carpet freshener but he got there before I was done cleaning up and I hadn't gotten to that yet. He did make it to the hallway near the thermostat but that is where the litterboxes are and then Mewlatto dropped a nasty one in the box right near him and he about threw up. I offered him a mask but he said a mask wouldn't cover it. I've never had anyone else react that badly to the house so I think he's overly sensitive. And I know I'm noseblind to stuff though.

People in this area tend to be very unprofessional. Once I get the place cleaned up more I'm going to see if I can get the people who installed the outside unit to send someone to look for the leak for me. Don't want to deal with this dude being unprofessional-- and he likely would refuse to come out anyway. I'm also going to get a black light and look at the copper tubing going into my AC and in the circulation compartment to see if I spot any signs of leaks.

Hi Zannej,
Above you mentioned buying a black light to look for refrigerant leaks. Unless technology's changed recently, the black light won't be of help. Black Light will not show refrigerant leak.

Your first step (that I forgot to suggest earlier) is to simply study all of the equipment and tubing for oil. If you see oil, chances are that is where the leak is.

Maybe check into electronic leak detectors. They are inexpensive on line.

Another plan is to buy bubble stuff that makes "bee hives" or "cocoons" at leaks. Big Blu is one brand. You can wipe it on suspect areas and if the leak is really tiny, a week or so later you will see the bee hive.

Or, if a previous technician put UV dye in, a UV light & enhancement glasses may find it for you. If they used red dye, you can see it at a leak with bare eyes.

 

[PJB12]

I wonder if he charged me for the number of people who came with him. There were 3 of them and one was clearly a teenager. I think the teen and the other guy were apprentices. I will note that the other two did not complain about the smell or react to it at all. Only this guy. He's been unprofessional in the past but he's the main guy they send out. I would not be surprised if he charged more $ because of the bad smell. Even though I'd taken the trash out and cleaned the litterboxes, the heat had been warming things up and not helping. The previous time he came out I had used air freshener and carpet freshener but he got there before I was done cleaning up and I hadn't gotten to that yet. He did make it to the hallway near the thermostat but that is where the litterboxes are and then Mewlatto dropped a nasty one in the box right near him and he about threw up. I offered him a mask but he said a mask wouldn't cover it. I've never had anyone else react that badly to the house so I think he's overly sensitive. And I know I'm noseblind to stuff though.

People in this area tend to be very unprofessional. Once I get the place cleaned up more I'm going to see if I can get the people who installed the outside unit to send someone to look for the leak for me. Don't want to deal with this dude being unprofessional-- and he likely would refuse to come out anyway. I'm also going to get a black light and look at the copper tubing going into my AC and in the circulation compartment to see if I spot any signs of leaks.

Because this guy made negative comments or actions in your home, he sounds like quite an insecure person. And I still don't get the part about not finding the leak. I guess one makes more money gassing-and-going than fixing once and forever.

Complaining about the odor at a client's house? That's ridiculous!
There is no possible chance that I'd negatively comment about a client nor about the client's property. There is also no chance that I'd tolerate it from any of my workers- not even once.

Instead of complaining, I am appreciative of the project and thank the client for her or his trust in me and trust in my workers. My workers do the same.

I don't work residential jobs, but if I did work in houses, those rules would absolutely apply. Licensed/certified for electrical (master), electrical distribution (certified), licensed mechanical contractor, but only work industrial cooling, hydronic & steam. Journeyman plumber but do not work in the field. Journeyman pipe fitter, but do not work in the field.

Wonder how that guy would react if he had to snake a sewer or clean a grease trap? (Especially the grease trap)

Are there other HVAC companies for which to choose? I sure hops you find a good one so you don't have to keep spending time and money chasing a leak.

Paul

 

[Ron Van]

Your first step (that I forgot to suggest earlier) is to simply study all of the equipment and tubing for oil. If you see oil, chances are that is where the leak is.

I'll add that the oil attracts dirt, dust and grime. If you see dirty spots on the tubing, especially near joints, it could be oil from a leak.

 

[zannej]

PJ, its the only AC service in town and I think the guy is the son of the owner who used to come do the work. The owner of the company is the nephew of a man who used to own this house and property. His son is a bit on the unprofessional side and always has been. It wasn't so much a complaint as he doubled over, gagged, and ran outside and said that he was going to throw up. I don't think he could help the reaction. In the past he refused to even come out to my house after the dead snake in the air circulation chamber incident. I had to explain to him what the bad smell was bc he did complain that time and left the house and refused to work inside. The last time he came out there were no complaints about smell. The cat just picked the wrong time to use the litterbox and it reeked. I'm guessing he doesn't have cats. Considering there aren't other options, I'm stuck with whoever is available.
That is pretty much par for the course with services in my area though.

I believe he said something about putting UV dye in. So I will have to get inside the air circulation compartment and see if there is any damage to the copper tubing there. Not much of a chance of being able to crawl my fat behind under the house to examine it though.

 

[Snoonyb]

A rope, a 4 wheeled sled, snacks & sodas.

 

[PJB12]

PJ, its the only AC service in town and I think the guy is the son of the owner who used to come do the work. The owner of the company is the nephew of a man who used to own this house and property. His son is a bit on the unprofessional side and always has been. It wasn't so much a complaint as he doubled over, gagged, and ran outside and said that he was going to throw up. I don't think he could help the reaction. In the past he refused to even come out to my house after the dead snake in the air circulation chamber incident. I had to explain to him what the bad smell was bc he did complain that time and left the house and refused to work inside. The last time he came out there were no complaints about smell. The cat just picked the wrong time to use the litterbox and it reeked. I'm guessing he doesn't have cats. Considering there aren't other options, I'm stuck with whoever is available.
That is pretty much par for the course with services in my area though.

I believe he said something about putting UV dye in. So I will have to get inside the air circulation compartment and see if there is any damage to the copper tubing there. Not much of a chance of being able to crawl my fat behind under the house to examine it though.

This lack of choices in contractors must be really frustrating to you!

If the guy did put UV dye, hopefully you can find the leak with the lamp and glasses, the save some money by pointing to it for him to fix it.

 

[zannej]

This lack of choices in contractors must be really frustrating to you!

If the guy did put UV dye, hopefully you can find the leak with the lamp and glasses, the save some money by pointing to it for him to fix it.

Oh yeah, lack of contractors in the area has been incredibly frustrating. We have a lot of stuff that needs to be fixed and my friend only has a little free time. Lately he's been helping some neighbors across the street since the dude had heart problems & nearly died. He said the lady there had been super cranky and miserable for months and now she's happy and mellow because she has a working shower and friend just put up drywall yesterday. Friend also worked on their vehicles to help out. He really is a great guy and wants to help people. If he knew more about the AC stuff he'd fix it for me himself.

I'm going to have to buckle down and deep clean the kitchen and hallway before that AC guy will set foot back in the house. He didn't seem to realize or care that it was fresh odor from the cat crapping that caused it to smell so bad.

I forgot to get a black light when at the store. I think we might have a black light flashlight though.

Does the AC have to be running to see a coolant leak?

 

[PJB12]

Oh yeah, lack of contractors in the area has been incredibly frustrating. We have a lot of stuff that needs to be fixed and my friend only has a little free time. Lately he's been helping some neighbors across the street since the dude had heart problems & nearly died. He said the lady there had been super cranky and miserable for months and now she's happy and mellow because she has a working shower and friend just put up drywall yesterday. Friend also worked on their vehicles to help out. He really is a great guy and wants to help people. If he knew more about the AC stuff he'd fix it for me himself.

I'm going to have to buckle down and deep clean the kitchen and hallway before that AC guy will set foot back in the house. He didn't seem to realize or care that it was fresh odor from the cat crapping that caused it to smell so bad.

I forgot to get a black light when at the store. I think we might have a black light flashlight though.

Does the AC have to be running to see a coolant leak?

I wonder if craigslist has someone to help get things fixed around the house. Just a thought.

Most (or all?) wavelengths of black light won't pick up UV leak detection dye at its 280 - 320 mn wavelength.
You need a UV light at 365-395 mn wavelength for leak dye illumination.

The yellow enhancement glasses help quite a bit, especially in bright locations. The light & glasses can found for less than $15.00 at Walmart Com, eBay, Temu and a bit more expensive at auto parts stores. I like the pen light kind, but wide beam are also available.

The unit should be off for your safety when checking for the leak.

How it works: When the technician installs the dye, it gets mixed with the oil & liquid refrigerant as the unit runs. When the dye encounters the leak, it'll come out onto the tubing. That's where your light will pick it up. Then, confirm with bubbles if desired.

One Often Missed Spot to Check-
Lots of technicians hook up their charging manifold hoses and then check for a leak. If the Schrader stem in the access port is leaking, the technician will miss it because the hose fitting seals it. Check around the service ports with the caps still on & check with the caps off.

I hope this helps!
Paul

 

[zannej]

Thanks PJ. I'll have to look for those glasses and light. I'm not sure where the port is. Would that be on the outside unit where they take the panel off and stuff?

 

[PJB12]

Hi Zannej,
The Service Ports are where your refrigerant tubing from the indoor unit connects to the outdoor unit. If you have a Heat Pump, there will be three. If standard cooling only, there will be two. (See Photo)

There also may or may not be service ports near or on the indoor unit where the evaporator coil is located. Usually they also are where the copper tubing connects.

A third location may or may not be on the filter-drier if it is an external one. That is a cylinder about 4-6 inches long and about 2 to 3" diameter connected to the liquid line tubing (the smaller tubing). It may be indoors or out.

Your service ports might be simple Access Tees (3rd Photo)

If you have a Heat Pump, also check on & around the Reversing Valve. Some brands are notorious for leaking. Also, check all around it, as some check valves are two-piece and tiny, tiny leaks develop at the o-ring where the halves meet. These leaks are so small that cocoon bubble stuff is the best leak detector. (See Second Photo)

If you'd like, attach a photo of where the tubing connects to the outdoor unit and the indoor unit. I can point to the service valves (Service Ports).

Paul

 

[zannej]

Thank you, PJ. I will have to get pictures outside when its daylight and not raining. I think I should have pics of where the copper pipes go in to the air handler somewhere. I can take more later. I forgot about getting the black uv light and the glasses when I went to Walmart today.

@PJB12 do you think a refrigerant "sniffer" would work? My walmart doesn't have any of the AC leak detection kits but Amazon has some. There's a sniffer with a UV light and I think there's even a kit with glasses. I'm trying to choose a good set. I could get a sniffer separately and get the glasses and light as a set. Any recommendations?

 

[PJB12]

Thank you, PJ. I will have to get pictures outside when its daylight and not raining. I think I should have pics of where the copper pipes go in to the air handler somewhere. I can take more later. I forgot about getting the black uv light and the glasses when I went to Walmart today.

@PJB12 do you think a refrigerant "sniffer" would work? My walmart doesn't have any of the AC leak detection kits but Amazon has some. There's a sniffer with a UV light and I think there's even a kit with glasses. I'm trying to choose a good set. I could get a sniffer separately and get the glasses and light as a set. Any recommendations?

If Sniffer is an electronic leak detector and it's for the specific refrigerant that you have, they work for larger leaks- not so much for tiny leaks like yours sounds to be. And, they aren't good if it's at all breezy.


How I'd Attack The Small, Slow Leak Problem-
Personally, I'd start with leak detector bubbles. The ones that make cocoons are best for very small leaks, as well as for larger leaks. The solutions for natural gas work, too.

Big Blu is my favorite. It makes large bee hive looking cocoons with even the smallest of leaks.
NuCalgon is good. Oatey I do not like at all. We use Big Blu at work for oxygen piping where absolutely no leak is tolerable. Ammonia systems, also.

Then, if you can't find the leak, find out if there is dye in the system before buying a light and glasses. (No dye = The light won't have anything to detect.)

Paul

 

[zannej]

The repair guy told me he put the dye in the system when he refilled the refrigerant.
This kit lists the correct refrigerant R410A
https://www.amazon.com/Lichamp-Detector-Automotive-Refrigerant-Protective/dp/B0B433GZP5/


This big blu?
https://www.amazon.com/Refrigeration-Technologies-Temp-Reactant-RT100S/dp/B005IT8EI8