Hanging slabs

Discussion in 'Windows and Doors' started by rokosz, Dec 22, 2016.

  1. Dec 22, 2016 #1

    rokosz

    rokosz

    rokosz

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    HI folks, Can someone please confirm a few things re:
    solid dougfir 24"w and 20"w 6'8"H slab hanging.
    I'm replacing 50yo by-pass and folding closet doors. demo'd down to the studs

    the big orange and blue boxes have 3 1/2" hinges that come with screws -- but they're piddlya$$ 1"s. Yes? For the jamb side: can I get away with 3 hinges/slab with 2 1/2" or is 3" the standard build? at 2 1/2"+ am I overbuilding?

    What screw length is appropriate for the slab side?

    Are #9 screws the correct gauge hinge screw?

    I was going to attach the (poplar) 3/4" jambs with 2" brads (~12/). Given the weight of the doors, are those brads beefy enough to hold the doors? -- or should I manually pound some 2" (or more?) 8d or 10d finish nails too?

    Hey, if I end up using 2 1/2 or 3" screws -- don't the brads become irrelevant since the screws will go deep into the studs? sorry, I know, hay is for horses.

    I've yet to check for vids on slab hanging -- but was wondering if anyone here has any clear and clean methods (or tricks! tricks are great) for the measuring/transferring of hinge locations between jamb and slab?

    I did search this forum door hanging but found nothing relevant -- if someone knows of something I missed please reply a link if possible.

    Thanks! and Happy Solstice! Now the days start getting longer (if you're north of equator:thumbup:)
     
  2. Dec 22, 2016 #2

    nealtw

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    The best trick is to buy pre hung doors from a door company instead of big box.
    Check you head height, 50 years ago doors were 6'6"
    On a normal door jam the hinge screws into 3/4" thick wood, so 1" screws are the norm.
    Hollow doors don't have much wood on the sides either.
    I would pre build the jam and hang the door in that and then install it.
    Hinge placement is about 7" from top and bottom and center. Or match other doors in same room.
    Top hinge should be 7 1/8" from top of jam and make all measurement on the jam from the top.
    Try to make sure that rough framing is plumb on the hinge side, life is easier then.

    Real nails for the jam, pin the trims
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2016
  3. Dec 22, 2016 #3

    beachguy005

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    I found the easiest way was to remove the pin and lay the old door on top of the new, use a combo square to transfer the hinge locations onto the new door.
    I changed out about 10 hollow to solid core slabs and I was concerned with the screw size also. I just got some 2" and used one in each hinge. 4 in each hinge seemed too much.
     
  4. Dec 23, 2016 #4

    rokosz

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    In my previous posts there is probably a request re modern windows in 125 yo rough openings. I didn't do the work but when a friend (who is infinitely more "handy") came by and remarked on the installer edgetoe nailing the 2x in place (that is, in the original RO). He said not a big deal -- you won't see it when its done -- but some edges were already split, tight but split. He said he would've assembled the 2x frame _before_ placing it in the RO allowing for its face nailing..

    So I see the wisdom: Cutting the jamb to exact then mark it up for the hinges etc. Too bad the the other slabs don't require new jambs. I'd like to try that.

    will do on the added beef of nails in the jambs -- but I can't get past the idea that the 3/4 poplar will hold the weight of a solid door -- for a long time -- So I'll go with 2s or 2 1/2s. -- but maybe only 3 per door (out of 9 total) -- Or whatever ratio works for no purchased leftovers. Where did I see 3" was suggested? I know it was in the last few days -- but I just remembered from long ago Andersen doors take monster long screws

    thanks!:thbup:
     
  5. Dec 23, 2016 #5

    nealtw

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    Just make sure you have good wood between jam and framing before you drive long screws thru.
     
  6. Dec 23, 2016 #6

    rokosz

    rokosz

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    hmmm, NealTw are you saying, that if there is a gap between the jamb and stud (via shims say) the driving of the long screws could pull the jamb against the stud--forcing the jamb out of "flat" or plumb?

    Do you think shimming behind the hinge locations would be enough -- or should I fashion some poplar furring(?) for the hinges to maintain the hardness?


    And now this. Since I last stained these same (Simpson) dougfir doors I think I saw vid where someone was preparing a (new) bare door -- and sanded what seemed shovelfuls, well ok, trowelfuls, of dust off it before staining or conditioning. Does that sound right?

    I ask because in my last round I did sand the bare wood -- but only to a light dusting - nothing near a trowel's worth. _And_ though the stain went on fine -- one of the Tung Oils I used (I had two different I used as time progressed), no matter how many times I hit the surface with it -- there were blotches that just wouldn't shine up.

    Now the Tungs I used, as I recall were a "pure" Tung (purchased on-line) and a canned tung from a bigbox. I thought the pure tung was the blotchier. and I think blotchiness was an issue for both -- but really remarkable in that one example.

    thank you all.

    the more ya'know the more ya don't.
     
  7. Dec 23, 2016 #7

    nealtw

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    We always double checked the stud on the hinge side so the finish guys didn't need shims to get to plumb. But yes shims behind the hinges but 2 shims from front and back so it is supported squarely.

    Not sure about how fir takes stain or oil. People sand wood to get rid of little slivers, it never happens you could sand rite thru and you will still have little slivers. That is likely why they call it fir.:hide:
     
  8. Dec 24, 2016 #8

    nealtw

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  9. Dec 24, 2016 #9

    Snoonyb

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    Have you thought about using a sanding sealer or grain filler?
     
  10. Dec 25, 2016 #10

    slownsteady

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  11. Dec 26, 2016 #11

    rokosz

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    yup, I did condition. Makes me wonder if on that partulcar panel I missed cond. or blotched the conditioner application. Funny thing about it was the stain was ok -- it was the Tung - can't remember pure or canned. It was a later door of 5 or 6 and could've been either type. Maybe I can spot it now whereever it is hung and note the grain for some pattern and watch those going forward..



    Sanding Sealers and grain fillers -- same thing as conditioner? will check..

    Whats the canned Tung cut with? Maybe that adulterant allows better penetration.

    Ask the builder does seem to say "sand 'er down" -- doesn't say anything about wet sanding 800 or 1200 , but still alot more than I was doing.

    thanks.
     
  12. Dec 26, 2016 #12

    Snoonyb

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    Sanding Sealers and grain fillers are two distinctly different product and processes.

    Rockler.com has blurbs about both.

    As you are finding, wood finishing is not an easy process to successfully master, so take your time and learn the skill and the rewards will be evident.
     
  13. Dec 26, 2016 #13

    rokosz

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    Thanks Snoonyb. yes, the options are bewildering given the options of desire...
    I got a lotta digesting and cogitating to do.
     
  14. Jan 25, 2017 #14

    rokosz

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    Yeah not so bad on the finish. Not handrubbed, just 3 coats Minwax Tung oil thinned with a bit of Turpentine, and a 320 sanding between coats 2&3. The result is a hi-gloss finish. The earlier concerns with blotchiness didn't happen or are so subtle as to be invisible.

    ah, but the DIY gods are not always benevolent: Turns out my measurement between jambs was not sufficient/accurate(?) enought to allow hanging without ripping 1/8" or 1/4" total or so from the side-by-side slabs. Before I do that, and since they're already finished (but only a few days cured) is it safe to rip-away without prepping/de-glazing the rip area? somehow I picture the saw fracturing the glaze like an icebreaker. Should i gently sand the rip line and then re-finish, I'll have to anyway on the edge. Or some sort of "softening" of the ripline (with a solvent of some sort) before cutting?

    thnaks!
     
  15. Jan 25, 2017 #15

    nealtw

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    You will want to soften the corners afterwards so you could pre cut the finish with a knife cut on the inside edge of what will be the saw cut.
    I would also plan on cutting the hinge side in case you get a few flaws they would be less noticeable.
     
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  16. Jan 25, 2017 #16

    rokosz

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    Capital idea! as Gomez used to say. I'd thought of the easing - but not that it could be used to advantage. And, yup, I didn't want to rip from the hinge side because the hinges are already cut, but if its going to be FIY (fix it yourself) as properly as possible, just gonna have to re-depth the cuts. Even that though can be a good thing - Some of the original 3 cuts are consistently just a touch deep now and i get a 2nd chance to flush 'em.

    Sage stuff NealTW
     
  17. Jan 25, 2017 #17

    nealtw

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    The big shops that work with melamine use something called a scoring blade before cutting. I don't know what that looks like, might be just a knife sticking out of the table.

    No router for hinges, a home made jig is not rocket science.
     
  18. Jan 26, 2017 #18

    inspectorD

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    Scoring blade is just a small 5 inch blade that cuts a slight swath about an eighth at the most high. before the big blade, it helps on any chip out from melamine and when we would cut Formica.
     
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