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frodo

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I for one. Am DAMN Proud to live in "Jesus Land"
yes SIR..
I pray before I go to sleep at night
I say grace before I eat
I go to Church every Sunday
I say yes mam and no mam or Sir to my elders
I read the Constitution
I am a VET
Brothers A Vet
Daddy's A vet
Grand Dad 's A vet
And the men before him, Fought the British, Spanish, And Each other
If Need be, We will Fight again
 

frodo

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Who paid for all those er visits before?


I did, The Hospitals overcharged those who could pay to offset the cost of those who could not.

NOW, That those who could not pay can..why is the cost not going down?


WE are still paying for those who can not pay, but now we are paying more
 
C

Chris

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So I went to the exchange for nunya, assuming he is close to 65 with a retired of 150k this is almost a comparable plan to what he has now. This is in the real world that we all live in, no jokes. This is what the left sees as the right thing to do. Nunya can you afford to pay this 2100 a month for care, yes you can because you will still have 100k+ a year left over and by you paying 24k+ for insurance you are helping that guy who makes 20k a year. Now remember you don't have a choice in the matter.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Repair1424186335.225902.jpg
 

frodo

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You haven't thought this thru.
You live in a great country that has a history of buiding great thing and the land of opportunity.
Send us your weak and poor or something like that. In fact means we need cheap labour to handle garbage, clean the streets, work in the mines,build railroads and fill sweat shops.
The world do not turn on $100k jobs. When it starts to look like wages are getting fair, we make it hard for unions and ship jobs over seas.
If everyone could pull up their boot straps and get a good job, do you not think we would find new people to work a macdonalds or pick fruit.
With out health care those people will alway be a drain on the system whether you pay mre healthcare or taxes.
You have a good start and it is about time that the people you elect start working on how to make it better. It has already lower the rate of inflation in the cost of health care. That's only a start. Oh and BTW nobody will ever dare to cancil it either party.
A country that isn't moving forward only has one other direction to go.

I still don't think this discussion should be on this web site.

you said right there in your post. "The Land Of opportunity"

In other words, get up off your lazy hind end, And do for yourself. MAKE it happen,

"The land of opportunity, not land of welfare"
 

frodo

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So I went to the exchange for nunya, assuming he is close to 65 with a retired of 150k this is almost a comparable plan to what he has now. This is in the real world that we all live in, no jokes. This is what the left sees as the right thing to do. Nunya can you afford to pay this 2100 a month for care, yes you can because you will still have 100k+ a year left over and by you paying 24k+ for insurance you are helping that guy who makes 20k a year. Now remember you don't have a choice in the matter.

View attachment 8460

Bet you a twelve pack of Fat Tire, you will not get an honest answer.
 

frodo

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My pressures up, I'm going bottle hopping......................
 

frodo

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...gave then bottles what for!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

zannej

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I think we've pretty much established that even if people are going out and earning more money, it isn't making healthcare anymore affordable. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, someone needs to step in and take a look at the hospitals, clinics, doctors etc and see what they are charging and find out how much the treatments actually cost and then bring the prices down to slightly above those costs so there is at least some profit margin to offset nonpayment and other things.

If the treatment doesn't cost as much then it won't cost the insurance companies as much and then it won't justify such insane premiums. Although I still wonder how the hell the insurance companies are getting away with premiums like that.

When I looked on the marketplace for the lowest coverage plans it all came out to being more than $5k per year-- deductibles were insanely high, and premiums were ridiculous.

If the prices at hospitals and clinics were more reasonable, it would just be cheaper to remain uninsured and go get stuff done when necessary.

I hope I'm making sense. I'm still sick and my ...... brainfreeze...
 

nunyabiz1

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Before you get too excited about dividing the country into two parts based around the red blue electoral map we always see. Let’s subdivide the map to look at it state by state and how they voted last time around, how about instead of states let’s look at it by congressional districts.
I live in Pa and if you take away the one or two largest cities the state becomes as red very red. You might like to think when you claim Pa for your Liberal States of America you get Pa but what you really get is 4 or 5 highly congested inner cities with major problems. That’s going to be your core followers singing the praise of LSA. Look at the map and see where the pockets of blue are located. Those are the areas that are selecting our leaders and setting the course for the rest of the country. When you say the blue states are paying for the rest of the red tearing down the country again take a look at it in a microscopic view. Good luck feeding the LSA, good luck making it thru one winter.

I’m not much of a religious man actually but still take offense on so many levels to you referring to your ideology as the LSA and lumping the conservatives in our country as needing a place called Jesusland. I will chalk that statement up to the anonymity of the internet hopefully. Or do you call your religious neighbors and business connections Bible Thumpers and such when you run in to them in public?

Well here is a map of the country and where your blue pockets of like-minded people live.
The majority of that red in "blue states" district wise is most likely massive gerrymandering .
As for the LSA, no problem at all it would flourish while the red states would crumble without those blue states supporting them.
 

nunyabiz1

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I find it slightly ironic you have cited several times your excellent health care plan when expounding on the virtues of ACA insurance for others and how even a single payer plan that includes everyone into the model would be better yet. You were eluding somehow a comparison. You went on about how good your plan is and how low your premiums are and how much is covered. But you are enrolled in Federal blue cross blue shield AKA Federal Employee Health Benefits Program. With the introduction of ACA Federal Employees from senators on down now have to shop for health insurance on the exchanges just like everyone else. But because your wife retired before that date you are grandfathered into your old plan of 20 some years. For some strange reason the executive branch was spared the pleasure of being on ACA. Michelle Obama didn’t have to sit down at her kitchen table with her laptop and select a plan when the rest of the country did, nor did any of the staff. Nor did you and your wife. The rest of us have no access to the plan you are on.

Chris asked you a simple question and I don’t remember hearing it answered. He made a request that you go to the health care exchange and just put your information in and see what excellent plans and cost structure you will find and report back what position you would be in today if given the fact you had to comply with the rules of the ACA.

I would simply ask you to just call up the Federal Employee Health Benefits Program and tell them you want to do the right thing for the country and your fellow man and cancel your plan. That you feel so strongly in the concept of the ACA that you want to do the right thing and become part of the greater good. I mean really if you feel a guy running a construction business (employing people) should pay a higher amount to help out the 14 million people that now can have health insurance under the ACA why shouldn’t a couple retired people making the same amount of money.

You of course realize that this BENEFIT was part of of my wifes 37 years of working her *** off as part of her retirement plan right?
I realize that we could not touch the quality of this plan for what we are paying because her employer is paying the lions share of the premium as part of her retirement benefits which like Medicare or Social Security we WORK for all our lives.
She does not get the option of Social security she has a federal pension thus that pension pays most of her Medical insurance.

I just tried to get a quote, since it is after the enrollment period I do not see a way to do so.

I am in TOTAL agreement that NOBODY regardless of how much they make should pay one red cent more than ANYONE else. You will never find a Democrat or Green Party or any non republican say otherwise.
Which is clearly why the only healthcare that makes ANY sense at all is UNIVERSAL healthcare or at least a Medicare for All for about $100/month where IF you make less than say $20K you pay NOTHING and for everyone else you never pay more than $100. We would have 308 Million people all in the same pool so cost could be FAR lower and standardized just like Medicare is.

THAT would be fair and the ONLY way to achieve that is Universal or Medicare for All, FOR PROFIT Healthcare is a joke and sham and should be criminal and will NEVER, EVER be fair by any stretch of the imagination because they only care about one thing and this is PROFIT.

I would like nothing better than to have Chris able to get exactly what my wife and I have, In fact it should be BETTER than what my wife and I have, we ALL should have the same Coverage we have and ALL of us pay LESS than the $252 we currently pay. We could get that with some form of Universal healthcare.

In fact the taxes we all pay is WAY more than enough to fully pay for 100% Free healthcare already, most every country on the planet is paying LESS than we are in the US towards healthcare and we get far less for it because of this For Profit manure we have stupidly saddled ourselves with.
 
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nunyabiz1

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Bud, for the record I make about half of what he does in retirement.
That is combining both my Wifes and I retirement incomes.
I worked for Scripps Institute of Oceanography as a Marine Biologist for just 24 years and retired early, she for the Federal Courts for 37 close to the same income but she had better benefits.
 

zannej

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How about NOT making this an Us vs Them thing that makes broad generalizations about the people in different states. When we approach things with such venom it only leads to more venom and it doesn't accomplish anything. Instead of belittling the "other side", how about we look at the big picture and what can be done to try to improve things for both sides?

I will say that I don't think it is right for the government to try to force people to buy health insurance-- especially since it is not affordable for many people. If your income is considered high enough, they jack up the prices. If your income is too low then you are on your own.

Its not like owning a car where you have some choice in the matter. Owning a car means you are responsible for that vehicle and when you drive it you are responsible for yourself, your passengers, and other drivers on the road because if you screw up you could hurt or kill them. That is why it is necessary to carry car insurance. But health insurance is something where people don't really have a choice.

I don't think that Obamacare in its current format is working very well for a large part of the population. There need to be more changes and we need to get down to the root of some of the problems.

Back and forth insults will accomplish nothing. We may disagree on what works, but we can at least do so with respect and try to understand other people's points of view.

(I started typing this before I saw the post about everyone paying the same price for healthcare).

I think part of the issue is: How many people will be paying absolutely nothing in to the system? And will say $100 per month or so be enough compensation for all of those people who can't pay?
What if people aren't happy with what the universal stuff covers or how it is covered or whatever and they want something different? Would there still be an option for something affordable?

And... damnit.. brainfreeze. got a sinus headache... I swear, I'm not usually this scatterbrained.

PS. My father had a masters in marine biology-- he specialized in Invertebrate Zoology.

 
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nunyabiz1

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Then he should pay double. It’s only fair. :)
Then the Koch Bros should basically pay for everybody.

You see the thing is both my wife are fully abiding by total right wing ideology.
We both are highly educated, I have a Masters of Science In Environmental Science from Stanford University, she is also college educated.
We both have only worked ONE job our entire lives, she started with the JAG offices at Fort Bragg and went into the regular Federal Court, all basically the same and in the Federal Court System.
I went straight from Stanford to Scripps.
Neither of us have ever once had to rely on any type of federal or state assistance of any kind, never taken a dime of unemployment, never been without a job, pay a gracious plenty in taxes.
She will never even get Social Security although I can but I like everyone else PAID for it for 24 years.

BUT, we both would still prefer that EVERYBODY were given the same chances we had.
Back in the 70s & early 80s education was virtually free in comparison.
Everything was better prior to Reagan screwing everything up.

Most people today do not have the opportunity that my wife and I were lucky enough to have.
We would both much rather that EVERYBODY have the excellent healthcare that we are lucky enough to enjoy.

But as long as we have a right wing congress and a right wing media that has brainwashed 50% of the country to believe that everyone that were not as lucky as we were because of WHEN we were born are all "Takers" then there is no possible way that is ever going to happen.
In fact the more right wing this country gets the worse it is going to be for everyone that isn't in that top 2%.
 

nunyabiz1

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How about NOT making this an Us vs Them thing that makes broad generalizations about the people in different states. When we approach things with such venom it only leads to more venom and it doesn't accomplish anything. Instead of belittling the "other side", how about we look at the big picture and what can be done to try to improve things for both sides?

I will say that I don't think it is right for the government to try to force people to buy health insurance-- especially since it is not affordable for many people. If your income is considered high enough, they jack up the prices. If your income is too low then you are on your own.

Its not like owning a car where you have some choice in the matter. Owning a car means you are responsible for that vehicle and when you drive it you are responsible for yourself, your passengers, and other drivers on the road because if you screw up you could hurt or kill them. That is why it is necessary to carry car insurance. But health insurance is something where people don't really have a choice.

I don't think that Obamacare in its current format is working very well for a large part of the population. There need to be more changes and we need to get down to the root of some of the problems.

Back and forth insults will accomplish nothing. We may disagree on what works, but we can at least do so with respect and try to understand other people's points of view.

(I started typing this before I saw the post about everyone paying the same price for healthcare).

I think part of the issue is: How many people will be paying absolutely nothing in to the system? And will say $100 per month or so be enough compensation for all of those people who can't pay?
What if people aren't happy with what the universal stuff covers or how it is covered or whatever and they want something different? Would there still be an option for something affordable?

And... damnit.. brainfreeze. got a sinus headache... I swear, I'm not usually this scatterbrained.

PS. My father had a masters in marine biology-- he specialized in Invertebrate Zoology.



I pretty much totally agree, however when approx 50% of the country is Liberal and thinks as I do and 50% Right wing and believes exactly the opposite which frankly is all pure nonsense then it literally does come down to Us vs Them. When facts mean nothing, then rational discourse is not possible. It becomes a "religion".

The biggest problem quite honestly is the MEDIA, the media for about 30 years has come down to being owned by 5 right wing corporations, every single word you hear or read is filtered through a right wing filter first.
Even stations the extreme right wing call 'liberal" such as MSNBC is actually a couple clicks to the RIGHT from Centrist.
The problem is that everyone else is sooooo far to the Right that a station that is close to center to them appears to be far left.
There isn't anything that comes close to Fox so called news on the left, in fact the "left" would not put up with it.
What passes for "left" is actually at very best near dead center.

I agree it doesn't help, but it is what it is until the right wing snaps out of it.

Things have gotten so polarized that it is exactly like trying to discuss the age of the Earth with a Young Earth Creationist, facts just do not matter thus it is impossible to get anywhere.


I specialized in Cyanobacteria and related Toxins myself
 
C

Chris

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I don't believe the media is screwing everything up because they are right winged, I think the media has screwed everything up because they are the media and it makes them money by over reporting and causing controversy. Technology has to be one of the main causes for all of these problems. When it took a week to get a paper from Florida to Oregon things happened at a slower rate. Just look at everything from the mid 90's up. All lifes problems have escalated ten fold from anything before. Look at Facebook now days, every other post is someone trying to start controversy. Its a sad world. Another issue I see is that we are raising a bunch of sissies, we keep forcing higher education on everyone yet this country has a need for all from uneducated all the way up. How many people could possibly be needed with a degree in the arts? Trade schools are going away as no one is interested in trades anymore. This country stops moving without Mechanics, landscapers, framers, bus drivers and the like. Jobs like McDonalds used to be stepping stone jobs for teenagers and young adults, they were never meant to be a career path.

Next is credit. Why do we need credit cards? We don't! Aside from buying a house or possibly a car there is no need for credit in life. I guarantee people would be doing much better without it. If you had to save for that new TV or new phone you would probably think twice about getting it and even if you did buy it you would be saving close to 40% of your income by paying cash for items. I gave up on credit for small purchases about 8 years ago and have had way more money because of it. Credit cards are ruining people.
 

frodo

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.....................................................................
 
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frodo

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LOL......Figured it just wasn't worth it.....
 
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