Healthcare costs.

Discussion in 'General Chit-Chat' started by Chris, Feb 10, 2015.

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  1. Feb 17, 2015 #221

    zannej

    zannej

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    I admit that credit cards are convenient for paying instead of carrying around cash, but my family uses them more like debit cards. They always get paid off every month so it doesn't get carried over with interest charges and we get rewards points that we use to buy stuff.

    But I know what you mean.. People are learning from early on to spend more than they have. It starts with colleges where the banks are in bed with the universities to get people in debt up to their eyeballs.

    I also want everyone to be able to have excellent healthcare, I just am not sure on what is the best way to go about making that happen. I do know that unilaterally dismissing an entire side (left or right) as "nonsense" and not being willing to have a dialog with an open mind is part of the problem.

    Its more productive to address the actual issues rather than the people behind the ideas.

    If we stop saying "these people are selfish" or "these people are lazy" and say "What can we do to make sure that people are not getting screwed over?" then we can at least have a start.

    I will say that I'm in the middle. There are some things on which I lean to the left and others where I lean to the right. On some issues I'm not sure where I stand because its not all clearcut black and white. There are gray areas that need to be taken into consideration. I know that it sucks not being able to afford medical treatment. I know that it sucks having to pay insane %s of taxes. So, where is the middle ground? How do we help people without hurting others?

    Meanwhile, a big problem is that we have politicians making decisions on things that don't really affect them very much and therefore, they don't care as much about what happens to people. They are caught up in the Us vs Them crap that is pretty much crippling the country. It's like a scene from "Horse Feathers"
    [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29E6GbYdB1c[/ame]
     
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  2. Feb 18, 2015 #222

    slownsteady

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    Zannej, you make sense, and you like the Marx brothers...............two thumbs up.
     
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  3. Feb 18, 2015 #223

    bud16415

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    I don’t doubt your wife worked very hard for 37 years and you both paid your share of taxes. The pay she received was also generated thru the tax system as are the benefits you both now receive in terms of health care in retirement minus your contribution. If we stay focused on the topic of health care and how it applies to a liberal thinking person, we have to notice that say a welder in Texas, a cook at a grade school in Fla, a fisherman in Maine, a plumber in Ohio etc. etc. right down to every member that’s reading this paid some part of your wife’s salary in return for her excellent job she did for many years. Our taxes are now subsidizing your retirement income thru allowing you to pay less for insurance.

    A true progressive that feels a system of equality for all is the way to go would have a hard time sleeping at night I would think, knowing they are benefiting financially at the cost to another less fortunate person in the private sector making one fourth of what you are and paying twice the health care premium for their family for a way less attractive plan, and at the same time paying federal taxes to support you. Those of us that are employed in the private sector can sleep easy knowing no one but an evil mega corporation is giving us what they feel it takes to keep us working for them. The guy that is sleepless is the small business owner trying to figure out where the needed money is going to come from. It’s not enough he needs to keep his business out of the red pay himself and buy healthcare for his family. He needs extra profits to pay for others in need a noble cause. But now he knows he needs to pony over just a little more to cover a family that’s retired with twice the income his family has because ACA law gave a provision to grandfather them into a subsidy.

    It’s all legal and a great thing if you can get it, but if you follow the money I would have to think it would be quite disturbing to a true believer in a far left liberal set of values.

    Someone once told me we are all equal, just that some people are more equal than others.

    Here is a good example of how this all came to be and how the party who did this for us truly thinks we are all equal, just some more equal and not smart enough to know what’s good for them so the smarter ones need to hide the truth from them. For their own good of course.
    http://insider.foxnews.com/2014/11/...deo-obamacare-architect-gruber-admitting-lack
    Please don’t comment on the link unless you watch it. :)
     
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  4. Feb 18, 2015 #224

    frodo

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    I watched it, then, and now. love me some Megan Kelly
    Beautiful AND Smart...Telling it like it is,

    deer-eating-popcorn.gif
     
  5. Feb 18, 2015 #225

    nunyabiz1

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    Which is exactly why as a Liberal I wish EVERYBODY in the country to have the exact same health insurance coverage that we have, all preferably paid for by that horrible government 100% out of the taxes that we already pay.
    The only change in taxation should be those that make well in excess of 10 Million a year should be paying at least 60% in tax with a lot less loopholes.
    Corporations should be made to pay more in taxes.
    Back when this country was doing the best it ever has corporations paid about 30+% of all taxes, today even though they make WAY more than ever they only pay 9%.
    Individual taxes of the top tax bracket was 91% and that was from a Republican president and administration.
    Things were WAY better in the 50s thru the 70s.
    A single low to medium wage earner back then could easily afford a Mortgage, car, food, 2 vacations a year, send the kids to college and still have enough left over to put into savings.
    Today to do that would take TWO medium to high wage earners to even have a prayer to do the same.
    Cost have skyrocketed, while wages have remained stagnant EXCEPT for the top 2%, their income has gone up over 250% above cost of living while the majority of the bottom 98% has at best gone up about 1% above with a large percentage actually making less than they did 30 years ago.
    In 1965 the average CEO made 24X what the average worker in that company made, meaning even back then if the average worker made $500 a month that CEO made $12,000/month that was back when things were doing great.
    Today that CEO is making between 200 to 300X more while the worker is not even keeping up with inflation. So today if the average worker is making a measly $1900 a month the average CEO is making about $575,000/month and that doesn't include stock options and benefits which usually DOUBLE that amount, or in 1965 terms instead of $12,000 they would have been making $150,000 a month + stock options and benefits in 1965.

    So here is where we have a problem, while the top 1% own and make 50% of all the wealth in this country, that leaves the bottom 99% to split the remaining 50% and the top 10% take 80% of that. and it is getting worse each year since 1980.

    See the difference between liberal vs Conservative over the past 30 years is that the Liberal sees that as a CRIMINAL act perpetrated on 98% of the population by the filthy rich taking control of the country (Oligarchy)
    The Conservative bizarrely sees that as perfectly OK and good old Capitalism at its finest for the top 2% to essentially take over the country while making the bottom 50+% SLAVES.
    The Liberal would rather see "Wealth redistribution" where the top 2% which makes around 55% of the entire wealth in this country should be paying AT LEAST 60% of the taxes not the 35% they do now.
    The bottom 50% should all be making a real living wage instead of most of it going into the pockets of the top 2%.
    That way the bottom 50% could actually pay taxes.
    The top 2% would STILL be the top 2% still be making massively more money than they need, the only difference is that the bottom 50% could actually make a living wage again like they did in the 50s to the 70s.
    That would mean FAR less unemployed, FAR less on welfare, the economy booming, Far more taken in in taxes overall so we could easily afford to have ALL of our citizens receive Universal Single Payer Healthcare where everyone pays exactly the same, a very small percentage of everyone's taxes goes to paying for that healthcare and the only ones paying more would be those in that top 2% income bracket that can easily afford it.

    That is the ONLY way that healthcare can ever be remotely fair for EVERYONE. Is to simply stop what amounts to a criminal oligarchy.

    This isn't very hard to figure out, it isn't communism, its just the right thing to do.
     
  6. Feb 18, 2015 #226

    frodo

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    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
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  7. Feb 18, 2015 #227

    nunyabiz1

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    Yet magically the rest of the planet can do so.

    and as I stated in last post if the top 2% paid what they should be in taxes and if corporations paid a real living wage to the bottom 50% then we would have more than enough tax money to pay for it without raising taxes on anyone except the top 2%.

    as for corporate taxes that is pure nonsense the effective tax rate for most corporations in this country is about 13% thanks to countless loopholes.
    The only reason a corporation goes elsewhere is because of what is called "territorial taxation" meaning that a US 'Global" corporation have to pay U.S. taxes on their profits earned overseas.
    Most countries do not do this, you pay taxes on what was earned IN that country.
    I have no problem with that, if a corporation makes a Billion in say France they should pay taxes IN France for that money made there and not here also.
    But they should pay at least close to that 35% they are supposed to be paying here in Corporate taxes, take away all those loopholes.
    Why should a corporation make 10 Billion dollars here and pay less than 13% in tax or in many cases ZERO?
    They should pay 35% in tax period for the money they make HERE, whatever they make elsewhere they should pay that countries taxes but not ALSO pay again here. THAT I agree is complete BS.
     
  8. Feb 18, 2015 #228

    bud16415

    bud16415

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    No nation has ever taxed itself to prosperity. No nation has ever borrowed its way out of debt.
    That’s my belief short and simple.

    Below is a very long read but if you want the straight scoop on what went on between Carter and Clinton here it is.
    http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-192.html

    If you want to know what all the countries tax rates are click below. (Go Canada)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates
    http://taxfoundation.org/article/corporate-income-tax-rates-around-world-2014

    If you want to see a mass exodus from this country (worse than it is) just follow the above formula for disaster.
    I’m not overly excited about what corporate CEO’s make now and I wasn’t keen on what they made in the 70’s or 80’s ether. But the truth is what they make as obscene as it is doesn’t make a bit of difference in the big picture. Tax them 100% if you want it’s a drop in the bucket. It is a hot button to push with people as we just saw done most artfully. I should do a comparison between the salaries of an NFL top player and the peanut vendor between 1950 to today. I’m sure the outrage would burn down all the stadiums. Those fat cat one percenters quarterbacks.

    Something to ponder is how Canada is doing it. take a look at the charts above.
    :confused:
     
  9. Feb 18, 2015 #229

    bud16415

    bud16415

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    Justin Bieber at 17 made more money than all but the top 3 CEO in the USA. Oprah made 3 times the highest paid CEO in 2011. Kim Kardashian makes more than the CEO of Conoco Phillips.

    We talked about going to a movie last night to get out of the house Tues is the only day we go as its half price day with a free hand full of popcorn in a little bag. We decided at half price there wasn’t still anything worth wasting 20 bucks on. It got me wondering today how many times salary the top actors make compared to the lowest guy on the set. Hmmm I would think there is some guy fetching coffee or some woman cooking lunch that must make something like 10 bucks an hour. I can’t really find how many hours an actor has to put in to make a two hour movie though. I know they get 10 or 15 million for the job and it takes sometimes 6 months to make a movie. Not sure if they work all the time though. Let’s say it takes 6 months and they work 10 hours per day 7 days per week, that’s 1800 hours and make 10 million that’s $5555 per hour and the poor soup lady makes 10 bucks and hour that’s 555 times as much. No wonder it costs me 40 or 50 bucks to go to a movie. It’s all those actors fault we should fix them we should tax the crap out of them like 90% at least I mean a million bucks for 6 months work they won’t be hurting still and I bet they get free lunches to boot. That will bring my movie night costs down to what it was in the good old days. Wait no it won’t the guys making the movie still spend 10 million just 9 million goes to the government one million to Arnold. And I still pay 40 bucks to see him blow stuff up. I’m beginning to think you just can’t win. Funny I haven’t heard a peep out of the Occupy Wallstreet bunch about these actor guys.

    More reading.
    http://www.istockanalyst.com/finance/story/5505172/compensation-ceo-vs-celebrities-occupy-wallstreet
    oh ok now I get it.
    http://www.usmagazine.com/entertain...s-why-actors-make-so-much-money-video-2014511

    I do agree George Soros should pay for healthcare for the whole country. He is one of those Koch Brothers right?
     
  10. Feb 18, 2015 #230

    Chris

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    I am locking this thread as it served its purpose and is no longer doing any good.

    The end........
     
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