Help with stove wiring question.

[papakevin]

I’m installing a new range (cooktop and oven combo, Amana) in a house which previously had a gas stove. New panel with a new breaker, so should be good. I ran orange 10/3 wiring (15’ run) and was in the process of hooking it up when I started to wonder if the gauge of the wire is correct. The stove has a 40amp rating. I’ve seen both 10/3 and 8/3 mentioned. For a 40amp stove and oven combo, will the 10/3 work or should I pull the wire and replace the 15’ run with 8/3?

 

[user 4883]

unfortunately, you'll need 8/4 for your new setup.

 

[Snoonyb]

I'd run #6/4, and break @50amp, which gives you the 20% over.

 

[JoeD]

You need a minimum of 8/3 but 6/3 is better.
FYI 8/3 has 4 conductors. but ground does not count in the cable numbering system.

 

[user 4883]

You need a minimum of 8/3 but 6/3 is better.
FYI 8/3 has 4 conductors. but ground does not count in the cable numbering system.

If the ground is bare, it can not be counted as a conductor. What I was indicating is that modern electric stoves use a neutral wire. 2 hots, 1 neutral and 1 ground (sheathed or unsheathed)

 

[Eddie_T]

It was easy back when I wired my house 8/2 AWG SE cable for cooktop, double wall oven and dryer.

 

[papakevin]

Thank you. Guess I’m making another trip to the crawl space.

 

[zannej]

I'm glad you checked before ending up with insufficient wiring. You going with 8 or 6?

 

[papakevin]

Depends on what they have in stock. The range is only a 40amp and a 15’ run so feel good with 8. If the 6 isn’t that much more, I will probably get it.

 

[JoeD]

If the ground is bare, it can not be counted as a conductor. What I was indicating is that modern electric stoves use a neutral wire. 2 hots, 1 neutral and 1 ground (sheathed or unsheathed)

True but it is not called 8/4 unless the ground is insulated. That only happens SO type cable which can't beused in this application.

 

[zannej]

So, is the appropriate cable type 8/4 or 8/3 with ground (per description on the label for it)?

Is this stove going to be hard-wired or is it going to be plugged in? (which would require an outlet)?

I personally like the option of a plug in case it malfunctions and you need to unplug it. My friend's old stove had some sort of computer error where it would turn the heat on without any of the controls being turned on and it burned one of their houseguests. The oven came on by itself and they had to unplug it.

 

[BuzzLOL]

Range cords are usually rated 50 amps and dryer cords rated 30 amps... don't recall the wire sizes... but it's prolly stamped into the insulation...

 

[Eddie_T]

In my case if I had a neutral the only thing that would use it is the blower and the burner indicator light yet the neutral has to be 8 AWG. If 240v appliances were required to use 240 only we could save a lot of copper.

 

[BuzzLOL]

In the event of damage anywhere the heavy duty neutral allows the fuse/circuit breaker to blow without over heating a smaller wire and causing a fire...

 

[Eddie_T]

In the event of damage anywhere the heavy duty neutral allows the fuse/circuit breaker to blow without over heating a smaller wire and causing a fire...

You missed my point which was no circuits requiring a neutral.

 

[BuzzLOL]

You missed my point which was no circuits requiring a neutral.

You missed my point that the neutral provides an emergency power return other than through an appliance/your body...

 

[Eddie_T]

You missed my point that the neutral provides an emergency power return other than through an appliance/your body...

The neutral is called a grounded conductor and is sized per its conducting ampacity and is not for safety. The ground wire is for safety. If a 240v appliance had no 120v circuits the neutral would not be needed. For example electric baseboard heaters don't have a neutral.

 

[BuzzLOL]

The ground wire was recently added to ranges... people don't usually touch baseboard heaters and they've always been grounded...

 

[Eddie_T]

@BuzzLOL I thought we were talking about the neutral now you're talking ground. My cooktop is grounded by the stranded wrap just under the sheath of 8-2 AWG SE cable. The perceived problem was that the ground was also used for a bit of neutral current. If there were no 120v circuits in the cooktop there would be no requirement for that oversized neutral. Electric Baseboard heaters are wired with 12-2 AWG w/ground so the chassis does have a safety ground.

Back to my original point, if stoves and ovens had 240v clocks/timers/fans/lights that oversized neutral wouldn't be needed. Before the simmerstat came along the burners had two elements and the switch used combinations of 120/240v to achieve the different heat settings. In the UK 230v has one leg grounded so no neutral.

 

[Eddie_T]

Correction: My bad, the 230v return conductor in the UK (220v return conductor in Europe) is called a neutral as it has no voltage referenced to ground.