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A day may come and may have already come in some parts of the world or even our country where water will be something quite rare and quite expensive. It is not here yet where I live but we do have city water now even though I could go out in the yard and pound a pipe down 20’ and have an endless supply. Actually if I looked around I could likely find a well capped covered over. So the desire for conservation is on a floating scale.



As a kid we lived in the suburbs and had metered water and my dad was careful things didn’t leak and such even though water was cheap and had fluoride and chlorine added. We would go to my uncles house in the city of Erie and their toilets would run 24-7 and on odd and even days you could water your lawn and hose your sidewalk and driveway depending on your house number. People would stand outside watering grass for an hour just because they could.

The town we live in now grew from nothing to a major town because of water. Cambridge Springs PA. A doctor 150 years ago or more looking for oil here as the discovery of the first oil was close by pounded a shotgun barrel into the ground and water flowed out. He took some home and tried to drink it and it had so many chemicals in it that it had to be good for you. So he gave it to his patients to cure them. then they started soaking in it and that cured you as well and pretty soon there were spas and bottling plants and 26 hotels as the railroad ran thru town and it was exactly half way between Chicago and NYC and was a destination stop on the long trip. They even held the worlds first international chess championship in a huge hotel here. Then the 50s and 60s came along and science messed up a good thing when someone figured out most of the stuff in the water would kill you and the rest wasn’t any good for you. Airplanes replaced trains and Cambridge became a flyover spot. I have thought about filling my hot tub with it to see if I got younger. :coffee:
 
bud16415 said:
A day may come and may have already come in some parts of the world or even our country where water will be something quite rare and quite expensive. It is not here yet where I live but we do have city water now even though I could go out in the yard and pound a pipe down 20’ and have an endless supply. Actually if I looked around I could likely find a well capped covered over. So the desire for conservation is on a floating scale.



As a kid we lived in the suburbs and had metered water and my dad was careful things didn’t leak and such even though water was cheap and had fluoride and chlorine added. We would go to my uncles house in the city of Erie and their toilets would run 24-7 and on odd and even days you could water your lawn and hose your sidewalk and driveway depending on your house number. People would stand outside watering grass for an hour just because they could.

The town we live in now grew from nothing to a major town because of water. Cambridge Springs PA. A doctor 150 years ago or more looking for oil here as the discovery of the first oil was close by pounded a shotgun barrel into the ground and water flowed out. He took some home and tried to drink it and it had so many chemicals in it that it had to be good for you. So he gave it to his patients to cure them. then they started soaking in it and that cured you as well and pretty soon there were spas and bottling plants and 26 hotels as the railroad ran thru town and it was exactly half way between Chicago and NYC and was a destination stop on the long trip. They even held the worlds first international chess championship in a huge hotel here. Then the 50s and 60s came along and science messed up a good thing when someone figured out most of the stuff in the water would kill you and the rest wasn’t any good for you. Airplanes replaced trains and Cambridge became a flyover spot. I have thought about filling my hot tub with it to see if I got younger. :coffee:
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A hot tub time machine maybe?
 
Even if you have a somewhat unlimited supply of fresh water, as areas close to the Great Lakes do, it still makes sense to conserve water as much as possible and use it wisely. Getting the water from the lake to the house isn't free and using it wisely can delay the need to upgrade water plants for more capacity. Same goes with electricity usage. It may not seem like much on an individual basis, but going from incandescent bulbs to LEDs and other energy saving appliances reduces the load on the grid to allow us to do things like EVs without building additional capacity. I suspect as EVs become more widely used the utilities will come up with a way to time shift home charging to spread the load. Duke Power keeps trying to get me to sign up for a system that will allow them to control my HVAC if the load is too great on the system. They're offering a $25 a year credit if I sign up. Sorry guys, you're going to need to sweeten the pot a bit for that. $25 a unit/year, I have three, maybe.

Many parts of the country certainly don't give water a thought. The western USA can't do that much longer. The Hoover Dam and Lake Meade are in danger of getting so low they they won't be able to generate electricity and provide water for the SW USA. Las Vegas lights depend heavily on cheap and reliable Hoover Dam electricity.
 
Sparky617 said:
Even if you have a somewhat unlimited supply of fresh water, as areas close to the Great Lakes do, it still makes sense to conserve water as much as possible and use it wisely. Getting the water from the lake to the house isn't free and using it wisely can delay the need to upgrade water plants for more capacity. Same goes with electricity usage. It may not seem like much on an individual basis, but going from incandescent bulbs to LEDs and other energy saving appliances reduces the load on the grid to allow us to do things like EVs without building additional capacity. I suspect as EVs become more widely used the utilities will come up with a way to time shift home charging to spread the load. Duke Power keeps trying to get me to sign up for a system that will allow them to control my HVAC if the load is too great on the system. They're offering a $25 a year credit if I sign up. Sorry guys, you're going to need to sweeten the pot a bit for that. $25 a unit/year, I have three, maybe.

Many parts of the country certainly don't give water a thought. The western USA can't do that much longer. The Hoover Dam and Lake Meade are in danger of getting so low they they won't be able to generate electricity and provide water for the SW USA. Las Vegas lights depend heavily on cheap and reliable Hoover Dam electricity.
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Any word on what they plan to do about road tax added to gas prices now as we are switching to electric? I know you have a service to your garage getting ready will they give you another meter?
 
Frodo gave me an explanation of how to go about doing a graywater collection from my washing machine (so the soaps wouldn't mess up my septic tank) but the potential drainage area is too close to my water well. The idea was not to re-use it in the house, but to let it percolate out into the ground after sitting and being filtered out by rocks and such. If I moved to a dryer climate, reusing water would be more appealing, but I do like the idea of reclaiming stuff instead of wasting. But then, I get more rain in a day than some places get in a year.

I once went into a gas station bathroom in TX and they had a sign saying to throw toilet paper in the trash instead of the toilet. I asked about it and was told that they had a plumbing problem. If anyone flushed toilet paper it would clog and back up. Needless to say, the bathroom did not smell good.

I do wonder about the feasibility of whatever system Bill Gates made where it burns the waste and generates electricity.
 
bud16415 said:
Any word on what they plan to do about road tax added to gas prices now as we are switching to electric? I know you have a service to your garage getting ready will they give you another meter?
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For the remote control of the AC units they put in a device at the HVAC to allow them to control it remotely. I'd think they could do the same with cars. It all runs though the same meter. We have smart meters, but they're still just a meter and they are either on or off, they can't control what gets power from the panels. EVs also come with the capability to schedule when they charge. Very handy if you live in an area that offers time of day rates for electricity. You set your car to charge during the off-peak hours, normally over night.

I have friends with EVs and they can go days without charging. If they top up daily it probably takes less than an hour for typical daily usage. Range and fast charging comes into play when you're traveling. This isn't to say everyone going EV won't cause a huge increase in demand but it won't be at every house, every day. As to road use, they are trying to figure it out, I'd bet we'll see an annual bill for miles driven. I suspect if they figure out how to collect the data, they'll charge it to ICE vehicles as well and there won't be a drop in the gas tax to compensate. With the recently increased CAFE requirements in the USA, there is no way traditional car manufacturers can meet them without selling a lot of EVs. When GM, Ford, and whatever Chrysler is going by these days selling a majority of trucks and SUVs turbo chargers can only get you so far. Even the new Ford Maverick small truck with a hybrid doesn't meet the new standard. If the relatively small, but capable Maverick can't meet it how does Ford meet it when their best selling vehicle is a F-150 and other F-series trucks? EVs are the only way they'll meet it. And they know it.
 
As for paper in septic systems, In Russia (at least in the hotel I was in) they do not flush paper. The maids burn paper in an incinerator daily. I didn't notice any smell. That's probably a good idea as no matter how safe they say paper is it is not naturally digestible. Otherwise try the military way use squares not wads to conserve both paper and septic system.
 
We were for a week during an adventure at the BSA high adventure camp called Sea Base in Florida. We threw the TP into a bag and not into the toilet. I've heard of people doing that on septic tanks. I find if you regularly clog the toilet it is best to flush the solids first and then use paper if you want to throw it into the water. Paper and poop combine to clog the low flow toilets.
 
zannej said:
I do wonder about the feasibility of whatever system Bill Gates made where it burns the waste and generates electricity.
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I think it is very feasible, I saw the Youtube video on it a couple of years ago. Great idea to improve sanitation, provide electricity, and clean water from the waste. I think it could be just the ticket in NC's hog industry as well. They are doing some enclosed digesters and capturing the methane from the waste lagoons to make electricity.
 
Flyover said:
@Sparky617 My washer is maybe 4 or 5 years old, so that's good to know. Also for next time I'm in the market, this would bias me more toward front-loaders.

@bud16415 That's a good point! I was thinking the water from my sink, if I collected it once in a bucket, would look basically clear and clean -- but you're right, I have no further to look than the P trap to see exactly what the cumulative effect would be.
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Flyover said:
My washer is maybe 4 or 5 years old, so that's good to know. Also for next time I'm in the market, this would bias me more toward front-loaders.
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Front loading washers were popular 60 - 90 years ago but soon the seals would stop sealing and doors would start popping open and flood the basement or if washer on upper floors flood finished flooring and carpeting and soon top loaders became more popular... hopefully, this new generation of front loaders that recently appeared have addressed some of those problems better... but they seem to be priced three times higher than top loaders... maybe six times higher now with the recent inflation explosion... the empty metal box a front loader sits on may cost as much as a top loader washer...
 
BuzzLOL said:
Front loading washers were popular 60 - 90 years ago but soon the seals would stop sealing and doors would start popping open and flood the basement or if washer on upper floors flood finished flooring and carpeting and soon top loaders became more popular... hopefully, this new generation of front loaders that recently appeared have addressed some of those problems better... but they seem to be priced three times higher than top loaders... maybe six times higher now with the recent inflation explosion... the empty metal box a front loader sits on may cost as much as a top loader washer...
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The front loaders of today never really fill with water. They might have a couple of gallons in them during each cycle. We've had a Whirlpool Duet for probably 10 years now and it has been flawless. You do want to keep the door open when not in use to allow it to dry out. I've never had to use a washing machine cleaner on ours, we've never had a mold problem in the seals.
 
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