How do we fix our healthcare system in America?

Discussion in 'General Chit-Chat' started by Chris, Feb 23, 2017.

  1. Mar 18, 2017 #101

    Chris

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    On another note did you guys hear that Los Angeles raised the homeless tax and now according to the mayor homelessness will be 100% gone in ten years. That's great news!
     
  2. Mar 18, 2017 #102

    havasu

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    I won't shop in LA anymore. I won't spend an extra quarter cent sales tax just so the lazy can become even lazier.
     
  3. Mar 18, 2017 #103

    French_guy

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    I work for a large company, and I have what I think is a good health insurance (I pay something like $450 per month for 2 adults and 1 child) and the deductible are $1,500 for the whole family, or $750 per person)
    But still, I like to say this:
    If I don't need to see the doctor too much (no major health issue), then yes, I have a more comfortable life in the US. But if I were to have serious health problem, I would prefer to be in France....As far as I know, I've never heard of anyone having to sell his house or make a loan to get treated for cancer or other terrible illness in France. And you don't have to shop around before doing an X-Ray or MRI to know which one is cheaper!!!
    1 more thing: the concept of "deductible" when it comes to health is still for me very hard to swallow......:nono:
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
  4. Mar 18, 2017 #104

    slownsteady

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    Looking back at Neal's post with the list of life expectancy, the US was ranked 43rd at 79.68 years using 2014 statistics
    In 2010, when the ACA had not gone into effect, the US was ranked 51st with 78.37 year life expectancy for men

    Neal: can you post the source of those numbers so we can compare 'apples to apples'?
     
  5. Mar 18, 2017 #105

    slownsteady

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    Question 1: Do you think that the overall medical system prior to the ACA (unregulated?) was all that great? And as part of that answer, state whether you are basing that answer on your own personal monthly bill.

    Question 2: If you think that the medical industry should be an all-capitalist proposition, then why should we continue to give tax breaks to companies who pay for medical plans?
     
  6. Mar 18, 2017 #106

    oldognewtrick

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    If we are going to have universal health care, make every single person in the US on it, no exceptions, no exclusions for corporations, or law makers. My biggest gripe with Obama care was all the exclusions given to the Wal-Mart, McDonald's etc. As with anything the govt controls, its the old saying, a camel is a horse designed by committee.
     
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  7. Mar 18, 2017 #107

    slownsteady

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    I have to agree. Anything that politicians touch has been influenced by lobbyists, "experts", pundits, etc. But does that just means it is all hopelessly broken? i hope not.
     
  8. Mar 18, 2017 #108

    zannej

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    1. I think there is a yes and a no to this. I think that there were some elements of the ACA that helped people but others that hurt them. Making it so insurance companies couldn't reject people for having pre-existing conditions (or refusing to pay for treatment for pre-existing conditions) and barring them from having lifetime payouts and expanding coverage to lower income people was a good thing. Letting offspring stay on the insurance up until 26 was also good because it helped out some of the younger people. Unfortunately, when they tried to balance it by making people pay punitive taxes/fees for not having insurance, that was a bad thing. Also, making it so that people like Chris had to pay so much more for healthcare plans was just asinine and unfair. A plan that costs as much as his and had such a high deductible is just not worth it unless someone was afflicted with MS or cancer or some longterm seriously expensive medical condition that would have cost people more out of pocket than the insurance. Not only did this financially hurt the middle class, it also caused bitterness. When someone who has worked hard, invested money well, and now is essentially hemorrhaging money because of this plan, something is seriously wrong. The money should not be coming out of their skin. And another major failure of the system was to NOT address the problems with greedy insurance companies finding all manner of excuses not to cover things, hospitals/doctors not accepting some insurance companies, and absolutely obscene pricing for medical equipment, medicine, and treatment. There are people who pay the punitive fee/tax because they don't realize that they are supposed to consider their net income (not gross) to factor in whether or not they owe it & assume they do-- and they really can't afford it. I know people who dropped family members from their healthcare plans to avoid the premiums going up-- but the premiums still went up to the point they can no longer afford it (when someone's premiums go up by $1k per month- that is a problem). If they had addressed the fact that in some places people get charged more for having insurance because they know they can get that money or charging people more for not having insurance because they want to make up for not getting as much as they want for stuff, it might have helped. But they failed to address some of those critical problems.

    2. I'm a bit on the fence on this one. On one hand, ideally it would be great if they were doing things for the greater good of the people. Realistically I recognize that humans are meretricious and being altruistic won't put food on the table. I think that without some sort of incentive (more than feeling good about doing the right thing or helping people) there wouldn't be as many people interested in going in to the medical field. When there are medicines and treatments deliberately being squelched because it could interfere with or lessen the profits of things like radiation therapy and so forth, we have a serious problem. I think that we need the capitalism to a point-- to encourage the competitiveness and for people to feel they need to strive to do better. I suppose I don't think it should be *purely* capitalistic. I think that maybe they should classify healthcare/medicine/equipment/etc as a necessary resource (like fuel, electricity, water, etc) and put a cap on how much profit they can make-- but still allow enough profit that the companies can feel it is worthwhile. Finding that happy medium would be tough though-- since there are some greedy bastards out there.

    I hope I'm making sense.
     
  9. Mar 18, 2017 #109

    oldognewtrick

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    Hopeless, I hope not. Its time for our nation to start thinking beyond political parties, time for common sense and not self interest groups to push agenda. We are so easily influenced by the latest news cycle. If we allow ourselves to be lead like sheep, you know where the sheep are usually lead....
     
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  10. Mar 20, 2017 #110

    soparklion11

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  11. Mar 20, 2017 #111

    nealtw

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    Carried debt is deductible unless it is a big ticket item like a truck. :confused:
     
  12. Mar 20, 2017 #112

    slownsteady

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    Numbers like that are so hard to interpret since we don't know how they arrived at it. If they are averaging all people in the country, some will have spent a fortune and some will have spent none.

    But, for sure, it has a lot to do with what we are charged for health care in the US. Our drug prices are so much higher than every other country. We have access to so many more tests, and doctors use them extensively because we are so litigious.
     
  13. Mar 20, 2017 #113

    Chris

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    I had two truck loans and a few tractor loans that I paid off. Not supposed to pay them off
     
  14. Mar 20, 2017 #114

    nealtw

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    Well you can pay them off but you can't write them off just so much a year.
    So you can earn money for the next few years and write them off, saving you money then.
     
  15. Mar 20, 2017 #115

    Chris

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    Yeah ill be fine next year. It would be nice if you could write off what actually gets paid each year
     
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  16. Mar 22, 2017 #116

    slownsteady

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    So what is everybody thinking about the new plan that's on the floor?
     
  17. Mar 22, 2017 #117

    bud16415

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    I think it is Obamacare lite. I think it will be equally unsustainable as ACA and now the ball is stupidly in the republicans court to take the failure when it happens. I strongly disagreed with the mandate of having to buy insurance if you didn’t want it. Now you don’t have to buy it and people wont but you will still try and cover everyone when the time comes. ACA picked up all the millions of people at the bottom by expanding Medicaid. The states don’t have that kind of money and relied on the federal government the plan is for the federal government to slowly back off leaving the states the job of figuring it out. Meaning more taxing. It doesn’t matter there is only so much money the working man can hand over in taxes. Like I have been saying the piper has to be paid. If you taxed the 1% 100% of what they made and have there isn’t the money needed. It is the 50-99% that are going to pay the bills for the bottom 50%. What we need is one of two things a lower standard of living for all including poor healthcare for all or we need more people working.

    The republicans should have done nothing to it and let it fail and never stop pointing out where it came from. They are trying to keep everything people now feel is their rights to have and not have a way to pay for it.
     
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  18. Mar 23, 2017 #118

    bud16415

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    I’m not sure why Neal posted the health and life expectancy information listed above but I believe I found the answer to his question this morning driving to work with the radio on NPR.

    It seems the death rates in the USA have been rising from 1999 on and a husband and wife team have been studying it and just released their findings. It seems it is caused mainly by the group consisting of middle aged age white males going up faster than any other group. In fact some of the groups I thought could be contributing have actually came down and shown improvement.

    It is an interesting study and you can read more here with graphs and all. It is called “Deaths of Despair”

    http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...g-middle-aged-white-peoples-deaths-of-despair
     
  19. Mar 23, 2017 #119

    nealtw

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    Bud, I posted that in response to your comment on life longevity.
    I guess I should have posted the list of happiest countries.:p
     
  20. Mar 23, 2017 #120

    bud16415

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    Well now we know the reason. We may well have the best health care in the world, but the numbers are being pulled down because middle age white men can’t take it anymore and are killing themselves in one form or another. :help:
     

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