How to get these three outlets working?

Discussion in 'Electrical and Wiring' started by farmerjohn1324, Sep 24, 2017.

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  1. Oct 3, 2017 #141

    farmerjohn1324

    farmerjohn1324

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    There is only 1 sheathing connected to the outlet. 2 to the switch.

    The switch and outlet are not connected. I've looked at every switch and outlet on that half of the house and can't find what powers the outlet.

    I tried connecting the loose wire in the panel and that wasn't it.
     
  2. Oct 3, 2017 #142

    Snoonyb

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    Of the 2 romex that are involved with the switch, is 1 of them the hot pair?
     
  3. Oct 3, 2017 #143

    farmerjohn1324

    farmerjohn1324

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    Yes, and the other goes to the fixture. It's working fine.
     
  4. Oct 3, 2017 #144

    Snoonyb

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    Here are your 2 options; you can purchase a FLUKE circuit tracer for about $70 and trace the conductors presently connected to the recp. that doesn't work to where the circuit is interrupted. OR, purchase a GFCI recep., because it's in a bathroom, a black, white and grnd. pigtails, 3 yellow and 2 red wirenuts to connect the GFCI too the hot pair, and to also safe off the non working conductors presently disconnected from the non-working recep.
     
  5. Oct 3, 2017 #145

    farmerjohn1324

    farmerjohn1324

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    I understood the first part. Would need to see a picture for the second.
     
  6. Oct 3, 2017 #146

    nealtw

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    I think he meant, you don't need or want the gfci to take out the lights and fan so you just pigtail them all and go to the line side.
     
  7. Oct 4, 2017 #147

    Snoonyb

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    Understand that this is a temporary fix as the use of the GFCI may well cause an overload, circuit failure and loss of lighting.

    I don't do pictures, so I'll describe it for you;With the breaker off, Disconnect the black conductor of the hot pair from the switch and straighten it, strip and connect 2 black pigtails too the black conductor of the hot pair by twisting them together with a plier and capping with a red wirenut, connect the other striped end of 1 of the black pigtails to the switch, connect the striped end of the other black pigtail to the hot/black of the GFCI.

    Remove the wirenut from the white conductors, connect the striped end of the white pigtail to the other white conductors, also twisting together with a plier and cap with a red wirenut, connect the other end of the striped white conductor at the white/neutral connection of the GFCI.

    Connect the grnd. pigtail to the grnds. connected to the switch and then to the grnd screw on the GFCI.

    Turn the breaker back on, press the TEST/RESET on the GFCI
     
  8. Nov 10, 2017 #148

    hornetd

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    Any box that will contain a receptacle, switch, or splice of the 120/240 volt wiring must completely enclose the connections on the back and all four sides. The front of the box needs to be within 1/8 inch of the exposed surface of a non combustible wall finish such as plaster board (Sheet Rock tm). If the wall surface is combustible then the front edge of the box must be actually flush with the combustible surface or protrude out beyond that surface. There must be no pathway between the connections and any combustible part of the structure for a spark from a failed connection to ignite the combustible material. The entire purpose of electrical boxes is to enclose connections so that sparks cannot ignite combustible materials.

    Every wire that passes through a box without a splice, every wire that enters the box and terminates in the box, and every device mounted in that box "Owns" some space inside the box that cannot be shared with the other wires or devices. The amount of space is matched to the size of the wire and to twice the space for the largest wire that terminates on any one device or devices that are all on the same mounting strap or yoke. If the wires in those boxes are size 14 American Wire Gauge (AWG) then you must have 2.0 cubic inches for each wire and 4.0 cubic inches for each mounting strap or yoke that one of those 14 AWG wires terminates on. Using the box in the second link above as an example it has 18 cubic inches of interior space. All of the Equipment Grounding Conductors (EGCs) count as One single wire, 18-2=16. Three cables with a total of six insulated current carrying conductors require 12 cubic inches 16-12=4. The device mounted in that box that has nothing larger than 14 AWG wires terminated to it requires 4 cubic inches of space 4-4=0. So that box could hold Six wires, Three EGCs counting as a single wire, and one strap or yoke on which #14 AWG conductors terminate.

    The problem will be that the walls in most manufactured homes are only ~2&5/8 inches thick including the sheathing on both sides. That makes the only type of box that is practical to install a 4 inches square by 1&1/2 inches deep with a 5/8 inch deep inch plaster ring on it's front to provide the correct size opening for one or two devices. Then you have to plaster over the plaster ring to hide all that work. Since you are working in already built wall you will need to cut out enough plasterboard to install standard boxes. In order to actually get a large enough wiring compartment to hold two cables and a plug the box used must have 14 cubic inches of interior space. I think that your best way out is to locate the edge of a stud, cut out the opening for a 4 inch square box, add the cable clamps to the two cables, work the two cables into the box, fasten the box in place, and add the plaster ring. Then you have to plaster over the plaster ring to hide all that work.
     
  9. Nov 10, 2017 #149

    hornetd

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    If that box is over 2 inches deep it will not fit in 1&5/8 inch studded wall.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
  10. Nov 10, 2017 #150

    Snoonyb

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    These have been referred to him;

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-Gang-18-cu-in-Shallow-New-Work-Electrical-Box-SNO18-6R/202664424

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-1-Gang-17-cu-in-Shallow-Old-Work-Box-B117RSWR/202077341
     
  11. Nov 10, 2017 #151

    hornetd

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  12. Nov 10, 2017 #152

    afjes_2016

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    If what I think you are trying to say hornetd is that this "old work" box is not as "fitting" as one would think. I do agree with you as I have stated in previous posts of mine. Attempting to place it in the wall, turn it in and secure it "flush" is quite a challenge.

    And yes I know this thread is more than a month old but "hornetd" is just sharing his "field" knowledge with us which can be helpful.
     
  13. Nov 11, 2017 #153

    farmerjohn1324

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    I ended up calling an electrician and he used his "mouse" to find out that the outlet was powered by something on the opposite end of the trailer.
     
  14. Nov 11, 2017 #154

    hornetd

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    What did the actual fault end up being?
     
  15. Nov 20, 2017 #155

    slownsteady

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    Glad to see you back, Tom.
     
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  16. Nov 20, 2017 #156

    farmerjohn1324

    farmerjohn1324

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    I honestly forget. This was several months ago and I've had a lot going on since then.
     
  17. Nov 20, 2017 #157

    afjes_2016

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    farmerjohn1324 many people like yourself use forums such as this one to help them solve problems that they are having, in this case electrical problems (electrical forum). Many people do searches on Google etc and within the results links are usually provided to corresponding results that may end up leading a person to come to our forum. The person finds they have the exact (or similar) issue as the person who started the thread and starts to read, as they come to the end of the thread they find that there was no solution "written" mainly because the original poster (OP) never took the time to come back and provide the answer or did not come back and let the members who took their time to answer the posts know that the members suggestions were helpful in solving the issue.

    All the members of this forum as I know them to be are volunteers; such they (me) don't get paid for offering their/my field experience to the OPs (original posters).

    Just a little bit of common forum etiquette is usually that when you start a thread and you get responses that you take the time to answer the responses to the best of your ability so we can help more efficiently. If you solve the problem it is usually customary to return the the thread and post the solution so people in the future can use that information to help them if needed.

    Example: I have a lot going on each day but I do make it a point to try and spend a few minutes to answer your questions to the best of my ability sharing with you my field experience and knowledge. "hornetd" has "decades" of electrical field knowledge under his belt which is far more than some of our other members (including myself) who tend to answer your questions/concerns on a regular basis. I think if we (along with hornetd) take our time to read your posts and attempt to help you solve your issues that you take your time and return and let us know what the solution was. From what I read in your posts many of the questions you are asking (threads that you create) are to assist you in your "job" not assist you in your personal home repairs. We are making your job easier in many cases; which I don't really mind too much but would appreciate a "thank you" or "problem solved: this is what I found" once in a while. That could take all over one minute to do in comparison to one of your threads with over 30 replies from the member totaling far more of their person time to help you.

    Just some "friendly" advise here.
     
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  18. Nov 20, 2017 #158

    farmerjohn1324

    farmerjohn1324

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    Okay. Thanks for helping.

    I tried to remember what the electrician told me, but couldn't recall.

    Might have been related to the GFCI in the other bathroom.
     

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