Improper plumbing & trying to remodel bathroom/laundry

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum' started by zannej, Jun 13, 2014.

  1. Dec 16, 2016 #341

    zannej

    zannej

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    Ok. that makes sense.
     
  2. Dec 16, 2016 #342

    frodo

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    put the center of the boarrd where you need it. then if your off a little bit you will still hit wood
     
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  3. Dec 26, 2016 #343

    zannej

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    Good idea. I was thinking of going with some 2x10s or something just to give more room for error or adjustment of height for the grab bars. My mother is 5'6" so I will have to figure out the best spot for them-- although, likely it will be a matter of having her stand somewhere and have her put her arm out and see what is comfortable for her.
     
  4. Dec 26, 2016 #344

    slownsteady

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    That's right. Observe her getting in and out and put the handles where they need to be. You may need one on the outside also, if that helps.
     
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  5. Dec 27, 2016 #345

    nealtw

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    2x10 is a great idea and when in doubt put more in, take a photo so you can find them easy later.
     
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  6. Dec 29, 2016 #346

    zannej

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    Photo is a good idea. I plan to put some marks on the walls surrounding the tub-- maybe with painter's tape-- to make sure I know where they are.

    The surround I plan to get can come with built-in-backers, but even the ones that don't of that model can have grab bars if there are boards behind it. It's one of the Sterling direct-to-stud surrounds. I looked at some of the Maax ones but they need to be over drywall but there isn't enough space to add something as thick as drywall. We have thin fugly wood panels with green stripes printed on them.

    I'll have more leeway with the laundry area tub since it will be built fresh.

    In a bit of good news, I befriended a really nice guy who is a carpenter and he offered to come over and look at the floor joist under my bathroom that some idiot notched out for the tub P-trap. He's going to see what needs to be done to reinforce it.
     
  7. Dec 29, 2016 #347

    nealtw

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    All the tubs we see up here go to the studs nothing behind them but studs.
    Notched floor joist. remove plumbing ,sister new joist to old and if the plumbing needs to go back drill a hole in the middle third .
     
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  8. Mar 2, 2017 #348

    zannej

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    This is a photo of the notched joist (on the left). It looks like they hardly have anything left of that section of the joist.
    [​IMG]

    I'm going to have to figure out where the wall above there is so I can add a vent- currently there isn't one.

    Meanwhile, it occurred to me that I was approaching the toilet venting the wrong way-- I kept thinking of wet venting or seeing if the north wall was less than 6' away so I could vent it at that point-- then I realized that I can run it to the closer interior wall and have the drain part merge with the horizontal part of the waste pipe for the lavatory. Instead of running the lav in to the exterior wall, I can bump the sink forward just a bit to give me some space to run the P-trap sideways instead of back.

    I did run in to one main issue-- and that was figuring out the best way to reduce the toilet vent to 2". I tried to no avail to locate a tee that had the side and bottom at 3" but the top at 2" so I was thinking of using a reducing coupling after the top of the 3" tee.

    Here is a revised sketch of the bathroom concept:
    [​IMG]

    Here is is marked up with the lines to represent the plumbing (I suck at perspective so the stuff on the left side that is supposed to go in to the attic is screwy looking).
    [​IMG]

    And here is my general concept of the parts to use and how they will be positioned. I didn't doublecheck it so I might have made some typos.
    [​IMG]

    What do you think?

    Any suggestions?

    I'm debating whether or not to save pipe and space by just punching a hole in the exterior wall to put the vent for toilet and lav and routing it around the soffit-- but I don't like the idea of putting holes in exterior walls.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2017
  9. Mar 2, 2017 #349

    nealtw

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    I see your cut joist but if you look to the right it looks like you are missing one.
    which might give you reason to think you have a very thick sub floor.
    Anyway just sistering one on the side of that that one would fix it right up.
     
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  10. Mar 2, 2017 #350

    zannej

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    What is normal thickness for a subfloor?
    Thanks.

    There are some places where the floor sinks down and other places where it pokes up-- There is a lump just going in to my mother's room that feels like a joist slipped off of a support and that the support is pressing directly against the floor or something.

    The house is pretty much up on triangular cement blocks with what looks like some cut wood logs for some of the supports. It's a Mickey Mouse job.

    When the floor in my mother's bathroom broke, the subfloor did not appear to be very thick. The floor above the missing joist has some sort of subfloor and then a black plastic barrier and then some sort of plywood of a thickness I don't think they make anymore (less than 1/2" but I think more than 1/4"-- but maybe it just sort of expanded with time due to moisture).

    When I sister the cut joist-- can I sister on the opposite side of the plumbing so it won't interfere with any plumbing modifications or repairs later on?
     
  11. Mar 2, 2017 #351

    nealtw

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    Your best bet is to clear away any of the old plumbing you can plan your new plumbing drill your holes and the repair the joists.
    You should have joists about 16" on center or 14.5 " between them or close to that.
    So if you are changing and moving pipes anyway that is the time to fix any joists that are missing or hacked up.
    Most or all of the old plumbing was done by homeowners so you could expect to find all kinds of damage to the joists.

    You might want to just take pictures from all angles and start a new thread about the floor so this one doesn't get lost in the weeds.
     
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  12. Mar 3, 2017 #352

    zannej

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    Thanks. I'll have to get more pics eventually.
    I do have a new friend who said he would take a look at the situation and see what he thinks should be done. He's worked on house structures before and his brother used to be a contractor before getting a back injury.
     
  13. Mar 3, 2017 #353

    nealtw

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    Would you not include the washer drain and vent with the same pipe as the bathtub?
     
  14. Mar 3, 2017 #354

    zannej

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    I think that my washing machine is currently draining to an existing greywater system, but I'm not sure. I couldn't find where it tied in to the rest of the plumbing and I vaguely recall my father mentioning that it was dumping to something under the house. There was a utility sink that was removed but the rough-in plumbing is there and the drain goes in the opposite direction of the septic tank then has an elbow and goes into the ground. So, I'm guessing it must be some sort of drain system.
    So, I was thinking I could just tie the washing machine back in to where it is currently draining (if it is not just dumping water straight under the house-- but I've never smelled the detergent or seen the soap outside after doing laundry). The vent I would probably tie in though. I forgot about adding that.

    If I did tie the washing machine in near the tub-- would it risk siphoning the trap because of the force of the water leaving the washing machine? Would I tie it in below where the tub ties in?

    I was thinking that if there is no greywater system, that I would just tie it in further down the line to try to avoid siphoning issues. But I don't know enough about washing machine drainage yet.
     
  15. Mar 3, 2017 #355

    nealtw

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    With a trap and vent, there would be no problem but Frodo can help you with that. If you have a separate field for that and it aint broke!:)
     
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  16. Mar 4, 2017 #356

    zannej

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    Thanks, Slownsteady. I had some 'net problems the other day and it kept refusing to post-- said I needed to login again and didn't show me that it had actually posted the first time.

    When the weather warms up I should get some mosquito spray and go dig around where the utility sink drain goes to see if I can figure out where it is going and hope that it isn't just a french drain my father set up. He had a few outdoor utility sinks for just rinsing stuff and his hands (one in the workshop, one just outside the workshop under the cover, and another in the car port). He just had the pipes spill the water directly to the ground-- but dug french drains to disperse the water. It was similar to having an outdoor faucet, but was more convenient than using a garden hose. Pretty sure it was not following any code, but it's not like anyone was coming out to inspect stuff. The water lines to all but the one in the workshop are broken now anyway. They froze and I had to cap them off.

    Is setting up a greywater system something a regular plumber would do or is that a specialty thing that another professional would do?

    I'm thinking that if I do set one up, it would be closer to the septic tank (to keep it away from the water well) but I wish I could find my father's notes on where he put the various waterlines. He used to have it all marked. Both of the arborists we had found some waterlines by accidentally breaking them and the guys who did the septic tank went through one of the waterlines (although I actually told them it was there and they just went through it instead of routing around it).

    and now I'm just babbling. I should probably create a separate thread for the greywater system thing because it is a whole other beast.

    Getting back to what you said, are you saying that if I use a trap and vent, it is unlikely to cause siphoning if I tie in the washing machine to the main soil pipe?
     
  17. Mar 6, 2017 #357

    nealtw

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    The vent stops the siphoning. distance to well is a concern and then the size of septic tank and field if it was big enough to handle laundry.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2017
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  18. Mar 7, 2017 #358

    zannej

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    Yeah. I think the well is about 20 feet away from the house and is on the side with the laundry. Septic tank is on the opposite side. Just had a new septic tank put in a few years back with larger capacity and got new drainfield set up.

    I'll have to search through the files I transferred from my father's old hard drive to see if I can find any documents that mark waterline locations. I might need to get the right software to view it. He had CAD and some other stuff on his computer.

    I made a rough sketch that shows the yard and spots where I know there are/were water faucets. Blue represents water. Orange is utility poles.

    Only four water spots are still working--
    1. The one just outside the back door
    2. The one to the water trough just outside the fence to the right of the house
    3. The utility sink inside the workshop
    4. The faucet on the fence that is at the southeast corner of the house

    The rest had to be capped off-- the one near the utility pole after the field lines was capped at the field lines. The one to the north of the house (left side) on the fence is capped off slightly south of that because of the arborists.

    Just south of the fence below the house we used to have underground hose to water the blueberry patch, but the blueberries are long dead.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Mar 7, 2017 #359

    nealtw

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    I wouldn't like the laundry water going in the ground with in 100 ft of the well.
     
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  20. Mar 7, 2017 #360

    zannej

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    Yeah. The more I think about it, the more I think it would just be best to tie the washing machine in with the rest of the stuff because if I try to run it toward he septic tank it might run into stuff. There are trees on every side of the house and I don't know if I could put a drywell near the septic tank. Can't run it toward the front of the house because I'll hit massive tree roots and I don't want to do anything to harm the roots of that old oak tree.

    Too bad there isn't some sort of inline filter I could use to clean out some of the soaps before it reached the septic tank. I suppose I could always dump some Ridx in the tank after some heavy laundry loads.

    Been doing laundry at a friend's house temporarily because the heating element in the dryer went out.
     

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