Improper plumbing & trying to remodel bathroom/laundry

[zannej]

Put in stackables and you have room for sink and cupboards.
Our washer and dryer doors open the wrong way, can't say you get over the upset, but after while you just quit complaining
In new construction it just goes in the best for the plumbing, like ours.

You can still put the plumbing next to the shower, the hoses will reach.

We'd lose the pedestals if we stacked-- and trying to stack them would be a nightmare. LOL. I like the levels they are at with the pedestals because they aren't too low or too high.

We already have plumbing from the lavatory right near where the washer would go. The outlet for the dryer is already closer to where the dryer would go, although, the washing machine will be closer to the outlet box so moving the outlet while the walls are down and floors are torn up might not be as hard to do. It's just that it tends to be more convenient to have the washing machine right next to the door because it's fewer steps to walk if we rinse something outside with the hose-- although we are thinking of putting in a small deck back there with an awning over the door.

I think I would move the outlet for the washing machine or make a new one-- I need to do some work on the circuit box and get some new things in there and add a whole house surge protector somehow.

I finally got my brother to look at my sketches and he loved the idea (and he liked having the washing machine right next to the door). He did ask if it would be possible to add access to the bathroom straight from his room, but I explained how awkward that would be (and that I had played around with layouts that did that) and showed him how it would not work out well-- plus his bedroom wall is a load-bearing one. But he loved the idea of being able to walk out his door straight to the washer & dryer and just going around the corner to the bathroom. He's on board with helping me with the project now and said he'll even give me a little extra money on top of what he owes me for the loan to help pay for it.

Edit: I forgot to mention that on the south wall of the laundry room I plan to have a small sort of murphy table that folds down from the wall and lets us put laundry on it-- also thinking of having a fold down drying rack for stuff that can't be put in the dryer or that the dryer doesn't get completely dry. That is another reason why I wanted the dryer in that location-- it's closer to the folding area.

Here is a general sketch of the layout. I probably forgot stuff in the sketch... (I apparently forgot the toilet in the first version-- I've rectified that). What do you think?

 

[zannej]

I know I keep replying to my own post. LOL.
I started thinking (again) about my material list. With my room measurements I did the math to figure out what I would need for the flooring. Since there will be water and chances for spills (from washing machine & bathtub) and because of the humidity in the area, I want to go with pressure treated lumber.

I figure I need about four 3/4" 8x4 (or eight 3/4" 4x4) sheets and the same number of 1/4" sheets. I'm currently trying to figure out what I need for extra joist support (I want to make sure I have support at the edges in case there are no joists sticking out from under the perimeter walls). I've read that I can use either 2x8s or 2x10s. I was thinking for under the washing machine the 2x10s might work (or is that not necessary)? That will help me determine what joist hangers I will need.

I might temporarily take down the wall between the bathroom and laundry room (the one with the main vent stack) while I do the floor-- if it turns out to be feasible to do so.

I'm going to attempt to get the joists set up so the floor will be level. For any issues with floor seams, I am thinking of using drywall tape and mud/spackle or whatever it is so the surface will be smooth and not create bumps under the vinyl sheet.

I'm still trying to pick out some vinyl sheet-- I'll likely get some from either surplus warehouse or HD or Lowes. Stuff in the bathroom will be cheaper but I want to get something sturdy for the laundry room. I wanted to get Lifeproof Aged Birch, but it's not available in store and can't be shipped to me.

 

[nealtw]

I know I keep replying to my own post. LOL.
I started thinking (again) about my material list. With my room measurements I did the math to figure out what I would need for the flooring. Since there will be water and chances for spills (from washing machine & bathtub) and because of the humidity in the area, I want to go with pressure treated lumber.

I figure I need about four 3/4" 8x4 (or eight 3/4" 4x4) sheets and the same number of 1/4" sheets. I'm currently trying to figure out what I need for extra joist support (I want to make sure I have support at the edges in case there are no joists sticking out from under the perimeter walls). I've read that I can use either 2x8s or 2x10s. I was thinking for under the washing machine the 2x10s might work (or is that not necessary)? That will help me determine what joist hangers I will need.

I might temporarily take down the wall between the bathroom and laundry room (the one with the main vent stack) while I do the floor-- if it turns out to be feasible to do so.

I'm going to attempt to get the joists set up so the floor will be level. For any issues with floor seams, I am thinking of using drywall tape and mud/spackle or whatever it is so the surface will be smooth and not create bumps under the vinyl sheet.

I'm still trying to pick out some vinyl sheet-- I'll likely get some from either surplus warehouse or HD or Lowes. Stuff in the bathroom will be cheaper but I want to get something sturdy for the laundry room. I wanted to get Lifeproof Aged Birch, but it's not available in store and can't be shipped to me.

You don't need pressure treated anything unless you want to keep insects out of stuff under the house but the rest of the house is not treated so mostly pointless.
You match the joists size to what you have. And you buy hangers to fit that size of joist..
subfloor want to match the thickness of the subfloor throughout the house if you can.
We like to use tongue and groove plywood for big areas, if not you will have to put blocks under the joints between the joists where the sheets meet.
That is just so if one bends it wants the other to bend with it or stop the bend entirely.

 

[zannej]

You don't need pressure treated anything unless you want to keep insects out of stuff under the house but the rest of the house is not treated so mostly pointless.
You match the joists size to what you have. And you buy hangers to fit that size of joist..
subfloor want to match the thickness of the subfloor throughout the house if you can.
We like to use tongue and groove plywood for big areas, if not you will have to put blocks under the joints between the joists where the sheets meet.
That is just so if one bends it wants the other to bend with it or stop the bend entirely.

I believe that at least some of wood for the house is pressure treated and bugs are an issue. We have carpenter bees that like to bore in to things.
I wanted to get the tongue-and-groove plywood, but it's not listed as being available in my area. So, I was planning to make sure I have reinforcement under all of the joints.
I need to measure the joists to figure out the size. From the photos under the house I can't really tell.
I still need to cut a hole somewhere to figure out the thickness of the existing plywood.

 

[zannej]

So, I've been discussing the subfloor options on the flooring forum and I think I've picked what boards to use (at least for subfloor).
23/32 in. x 4 ft. x 8 ft. RTD Sheathing Syp
It's only 1/32" off from being 3/4".
They didn't have the treated ones available to my area and I found some ones rated to work as floors (they don't show the brand, but I believe they are Plytanium and should be CAT P1-09 or something like that). They do have that same thickness board in tongue-and-groove, but I didn't want to pay $6 more per board just for that.

For the top layer, I am waiting to find out what the current floor thickness is so I can try to match it, so I will have to wait for warmer weather to go poking around. I also found out that I will need to stagger the top layer so the seams do not line up with the seams on the subfloor.

The thinnest one I found is 11/32 in. x 4 ft. x 8 ft. Rtd Southern Yellow Pine Plywood Sheathing. It's more than 1/4" thick so it would likely be sturdy enough.
I'm hoping that thickness will suffice since it's less expensive than the thicker ones.

I figure I could use Thompson's wood sealant on the subfloor boards but I would probably just leave the 2nd layer as is. Then I could put looselay vinyl sheet down on top.

The plan is to do things in stages. First I will tear out the current bathroom, floors and all. Get plumbing roughed in, vent hole cut in exterior wall, adjust the doorway to the new bathroom (bumping it over about 3" to 4" so the doorknob won't hit the wall when door swings in), adjust/run electrical for the new laundry room, paint the walls/replace wall panels, do the floor, and install the new door. Then I will move the laundry appliances and stuff in to the mostly finished space and then repeat the process with the new bathroom.

 

[zannej]

I updated my sketches for the latest plan. I couldn't find upper cabinets that looked right in sketchup so just imagine some uppers above the washer and dryer. I currently can't hide objects or walls because sketchup freezes whenever I click "edit". Probably because the vanity/sink is too high-poly & needs to be replaced.

I plan to put a shelf behind the back wall that will jut out about as far as the little stub-out for light switches. It will either extend all the way across the wall or terminate at the end of the dryer side. There will be a lower shelf under the rim of the window and some side-braces to prevent stuff from falling behind. There will be a fold-down table for folding laundry to the right of the dryer. I will have a bin for lint/trash in the corner next to the dryer. Not drawn in but I intend to have an access panel next to the bin (behind the shower) to shut off the water to the shower if need be.

I plan to put an anti-fatigue mat in front of the washer and dryer (the rug I put there was just a random one they had available for download-- I'll probably have a red or brown mat there instead). I'm still trying to figure out if I will have the power outlets for washer & dryer in the wall between bathroom and laundry (necessitating longer cords) or if I will have them be outside the wall below the shelves (in appropriate boxes) so they can be closer. I'm leaning toward having a plug box below the shelf next to the dryer so the plugs can be accessed more easily.

Bathroom will have double curved shower curtain rod-- outer rod will work as a towel rack to save wall space, space saver above toilet, medicine cabinet above lav, and a 2 or 3 bulb vanity light. 2-gang box with GFCI outlet and switch will be near the vanity (I need to figure out ideal height to avoid water splash but be easily accessible for plugging stuff in. There will be a shelf behind and against the wall to the side of the vanity to keep stuff from falling (and give extra counter space). I may use some plastic shower window trim on the shelves to keep them dry. Towel ring will be near vanity on the wall & toilet paper holder should mount to the side of the vanity-- but high enough up that it won't bump people's legs. I'm thinking one or two small trash bins should be in the bathroom-- either just one near the toilet or one near toilet and one near the door.

Mom just called and wants dinner. I'll have to finish my thoughts later.

 

[zannej]

For the fold-down table, I'm thinking something similar to the art desk from Ana-White's plans http://www.ana-white.com/2011/09/flip-down-wall-art-desk-0
But, instead of artwork, I want to have something more functional-- maybe something with hooks or a bar to hold stuff that can be hung up to dry.
I'm trying to figure out the best mechanism for holding the weight when it is in the down position. The table would be somewhere between 11" to 15" deep-- depending on how much space we end up with once the washer & dryer are put in. I wouldn't want to make the box it sits in too deep. I would want sturdier hinges instead of chains, and maybe something that can fold down and press against the wall at an angle to give additional support (I hope that makes sense).
Or maybe I could have a shelf at the bottom of the table that acts as a corbel/support when the table folds down..
I'm still deciding on the best hinges-- I want to make sure the table doesn't just drop down and slam. I want it fold a little slower, so maybe some hinges on the outer edge just at the corner might help, but the corbel/shelf would be an added support. I have no doubt that my fat cats will jump up on it. I should probably taper the edge of the table on the underside to give it more clearance as it folds down next to the dryer...

On the bright side, my brother loves my sketches, thinks google sketchup is "awesome", and loves the folding laundry table idea.

 

[nealtw]

Put a ledger on the exterior wall to catch the table and the other end have a coble type thingy on a hinge to the wall so you open that and drop the table then a piano hinge on the shelf would be plenty.

 

[nealtw]

 

[zannej]

Ooh, that would be a good idea! And in a pinch I could hang stuff off of it when the table is folded up. I could even do two of them that swing out to support the edges. Or I could make the part that attaches to the wall lower down and have the end piece stick up more to give clearance for a small shelf (with horizontal support put in the swinging bracket for stability) so I could still have a little shelf. I want to make sure it will survive if my brother puts any weight on it accidentally. Although, I'm seriously considering also just keeping a 2x4 handy so it can just be placed under it and touch the floor for support.If I could figure out how to attach old telescoping canes to the bottom that could be extended when it comes out and have the little rubber feet sit down on the floor it would be cool too. LOL. or maybe not the canes, but more like the adjustable height shower seats.

or something like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002N5YF5Q/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
I could get 1, mount it sideways on the bottom when the table is up, then swing it out & extend it when I fold the table down.
Or I could get https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002N5YEZM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Editing again because I just saw something cool-- instead of folding down, I could have the table fold up! https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D83OEEY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
There are customer photos of how to do it-- and I could still have a little shelf on top that goes flush against the wall when folded up & have the swing-out brace or a swing down leg.

 

[nealtw]

Or set the washer dryer on the floor and build a counter top above them. Extend it around to the door and have shelves to store towels for that bath. Or cut the hole in the wall and have those shelve facing the bathroom between the door and the tub. That would add 4" to the depth of the shelves.

 

[zannej]

I have a bad back so I need the pedestals. I always hated bending down in to the machines without pedestals. They are just too low.
But, I am thinking a combo of that swing-out arm for center support & those brackets would be good. I would just have to make sure that the arm doesn't hit the wall supports (which I believe should be 2x8s). I'll have to figure out some way to lock the arm in place once it is out.
I don't have to make the table a uniform rectangle. I can notch it and have it stick out more once it is clear of the dryer for a little extra space (but I'd have to see everything in the space to make sure it wouldn't interfere with the dryer door).
With the table folding up from the lower part, it will free up space up high for cabinets, shelves, or drying racks.

Also, I'm trying to figure out the best way to wire the vent fan/light/heater. I want to us a triplex rocker switch (3 rockers that fit in a single gang box). I know the hot goes in on one side and that the "loads" connect on the other side (with the ground connecting to the green screw on the switch. To make sure I understand it properly, the black (hot) wires from the switch go to the fan, light, & heater respectively but the neutral wires bypass the switch & go directly to the respective parts? Since the white (neutral) wires would enter the box, would I use a wire nut to tether them all together in the switch box & then have them continue on to the fixture?

I'm confused about the ground though. The diagram for the switch doesn't show the ground going anywhere-- just terminating at the switch. Would the ground setup depend on the light fixture?

 

[nealtw]

All the ground tie together as well as going to he green screw and all the whites get nutted too. Might need more cubic inch box.
You could check code but there is 14/4 romex where you have white and three coloured wires one for each line.

 

[zannej]

So, the green from the source and the green from the light get joined together and then attach to the green screw?
I'll need to see what sort of wire we currently have for the existing vent/light/heater. It's old wiring and will probably need to be replaced, but at least I can see what it is to know what to look for. And I'll have to open the box for the replacement vent/light/heater and take a look at the instructions and wires that it has. It's entirely possible that the existing installed one doesn't have the right type of wiring.

 

[zannej]

I found out the windows I wanted to get are no longer available. I found some at Lowes that can be custom ordered with tempered glass. I'm sort of leaning toward a window with a grid (to match the kitchen window)- but also just in case it adds a little more stability. Only issue is it says they are for mobile homes (although the CS person from Lowes said it can be used for a house as well). I'm still waiting to find out if they can be placed in a shower. I've narrowed it down to 3 options. Two of them have windows that slide up & one tilts open. I'm not sure if a tilt window would be good-- had some in Guam that were rated for a bomb shelter but I never opened them.
This is the comparison (if it works).
It would probably be an extra $10 to $20 for tempered glass.

 

[zannej]

It's raining, everyone else is asleep, and I'm bored. So, I'm thinking about the fittings I will need for this project. I was thinking I would need new ceiling tiles, but then I realized that we might have shiplap ceiling (a tile fell in the kitchen and there is shiplap visible). I just don't know if there will be gaps in the ceiling where the bathroom walls are currently. I'm hoping there won't be gaps and that it will all be ok. Plan B is to use some decorative trim or something used on ceilings to create some shapes or something to hide any gaps. Something like this maybe (but not very thick or fancy)


Existing shiplap (if there is any-- and I hope there is) will get a fresh coat of paint.

Aesthetics aside, I've been thinking about the plumbing. I know the tub will have 1-1/2" drain, but I'm wondering if I an use a coupling to have a 2" trap plus a 2" hub elbow to see if it will improve drainage any. Although, it might make things an even tighter fit than they already are and the main vent is very close by, but, I could always run an auxiliary vent for the tub inside the wall and then have it meet up with the existing vent. I'm still trying to figure out the best spot to tie in the washing machine drain so the force of the water/air won't siphon water out of the tub trap.

I think the rough-in tub overflow kit I had flagged as wanting is no longer for sale, so I will have to find a good one. I've seen some that were slip joint, but I think that would be a bad idea.

I'm thinking of getting an access panel for walls to fit behind the plumbing for the tub (amazon customers posted pictures of using it just for that). I know it is pricey, but it might be easier than trying to make a plywood panel that has to be screwed on.

 

[tuffy]

I really think your ceiling would look really nice if you did something like that.I also think a 2 inch drain assembly would definitely make things flow better. and i would definitely get an access panel mine has made my life a lot easier.

 

[zannej]

Thanks, Tuffy!
I wonder how it would look on a shiplap ceiling... I was thinking some 1x4 lumber would suffice for the ceiling pattern. Lowes has some already primed. I was also pricing out the lumber to build the shelves and cabinets. For the medicine cabinet I'm thinking 1x4 pine, for the folding shelf some 1x12 pine. I found some cedar for something, but can't remember what I wanted to use it for. LOL. I will probably go with plywood for the upper cabinets and some pine for the trim/face parts. I intend to paint the cabinets & shelves with an easy-to-clean white paint. I normally do like the medium reddish wood tones, but for small spaces like that, I want white to make the space look larger. I'm hoping to re-use some of the remaining shiplap on the walls.
If I do some 1x4s on the ceiling (the actual size is something like 3/4" instead of 1") I can use some 3/4" quarter round for the edges. I'll just have to examine the ceiling more to make sure it doesn't look awkward with the attic access panel. Reminds me I still need to get that Werner attic ladder installed. It's just sitting in a box somewhere for now.

I've been thinking about the medicine cabinet/bathroom mirror. I have an existing medicine cabinet that fits in the wall & I have the mirror that matches the vanity. I was going to use that mirror in my bathroom and make one for the guest bath. But, it is a huge mirror and might prove too heavy to be a door for a medicine cabinet. So, maybe I can just put that mirror on the wall over the vanity in the guest bath with the medicine cabinet recessed in the interior wall to the side of it, or in the wall across from the toilet. If I put it across from the toilet over a trash bin, my brother can shave there. He currently shaves using the small mirror on the inside of a bathroom cabinet door, leaves hair all over the floor, and forgets to close the damn door. Then I can build a medicine cabinet for my own bathroom and move the small existing mirror to another spot.

I'm also thinking of temporarily using AAVs instead of tying in to the main vent stack-- at least until I have the resources to do it properly. It would be better than the S-traps. I found some Oatey AAVs that claim to have positive and negative pressure.

 

[tuffy]

I think every you have described makes sense in my book any way i think its going to turn out super nice something you can be proud and say to your guests yea i did that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[zannej]

Thanks! It helps to get encouragement. We don't have guests over often, but it will be great for them to get to use a bathroom without going through someone's bedroom. Right now the only operational bathroom is Mom's ensuite. Sometimes the cats run in and then I have to play the game of trying to catch them and get them down without them knocking stuff over-- Rupert likes to get on a shelf and knock over my brother's electric razor.
I really want to get the space organized better. Right now it is a complete mess-- full of my brother's laundry and junk.

The computer case is being used to hold the door closed bc it won't stay shut.


Not sure if those orange handled clippers are any good. Guy who was doing some yard work for us used them and left them out in the grass so I think they rusted. Not sure what the red-handled thing is, but I think it might be a broom or dust pan.

This is what the ceiling looks like in the kitchen.

And this is in the hallway leading to the laundry room and around the bathroom. I can see some boards where the ceiling tiles fell down. It looks similar to what is in the kitchen but not quite the same. There are gaps. So maybe it's just painted boards rather than shiplap. Yellow wall panels are the original walls of the house (at least it's what was there when we moved in). The visible bare ceiling is just above the exterior door.

I'll have to pull the staples out, sand it, and give it a nice fresh coat of paint.

Just had such bad gastritis it hurt all the way through my back and shoulderblades and made me forget what I was talking about.