Install siding on cinder block

Discussion in 'Bricks, Masonry and Concrete' started by OLDummy, Oct 1, 2007.

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  1. Oct 1, 2007 #1

    OLDummy

    OLDummy

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    We have a 40 year old cinder block house to put siding on. Am looking at 'barn siding' in 4x8 sheets.

    What's the best way to install? Furring strips - nailed or screwed, etc???

    Thanks everybody...

    Terry

    BTW.. we will consider other options also.. no vinyl! Thank you.
     
  2. Oct 1, 2007 #2

    glennjanie

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    Welcome Terry:
    The most secure method to install siding on blocks is to screw it on. There are several brands of screws that require a very small hole to be drilled and then they can be screwed directly into the blocks. The first one I can think of is Ackerman-Johnson (AJ's) but there are other brands too. Talk to the folks at the big box store near you.
    It is a slow process but it is the only permanent process. If you use Contech PL400 construction adhesive also, it will require less screws.
    Glenn
     
  3. Oct 1, 2007 #3

    OLDummy

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    I've been told to "fur" with 1x3 first.. foam insulate between.

    I've also been told that a "22" nailer will shatter the block! So you ( and others ) are suggesting screw/glue fur into block and then nail or screw siding.

    Thanks..

    Terry
     
  4. Oct 1, 2007 #4

    Daryl in Nanoose

    Daryl in Nanoose

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    I would go the furing strip method fasten to the block with Tapcons or screws as mentioned and PL400. Insulate with foamboard sheets.
    I myself would add 3/8" plywood and tarpaper in fact I think its code up here.
     
  5. Oct 1, 2007 #5

    glennjanie

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    Hey Terry:
    I know most folks like to use the furring strips but my experience shows the best method is to glue and screw directly to the blocks. Furring strips tend to turn loose and are difficult to repair and the direct method is a one-step process. It won't hurt my feelings at all if you go the other way; I'm simply sharing my experiences with you.
    Let us know how it turns out for you; maybe even some before and after pictures.
    Glenn
     
  6. Oct 1, 2007 #6

    Daryl in Nanoose

    Daryl in Nanoose

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    Good point Glenn, I will have to remember this.
     
  7. Oct 2, 2007 #7

    OLDummy

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    Thanks guys..

    Glenn I'm with you.. in fact after talking with our man @ HD he suggested just glue period.. especially since this is "old" block [ mid-60's.. ALL hollow.. I know because where there were old steel "channel" windows there are now 2 doorways.. to a walk-in closet and laundry room, and a back door. Not to mention framing 6 new windows and a sliding-glass door ] the block is rather "brittle"? Now you know why I'm the OLDummy.. I was a much younger older guy a couple years ago!

    Wattaya think?

    Terry
     
  8. Oct 2, 2007 #8

    glennjanie

    glennjanie

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    Hey that's cool Terry:
    Seems like I can remember being a younger dummy a few years ago..... or was that last week, hmmm, well you get the point.
    I am interested to know something about your blocks. Lots of folks call blocks 'cinder blocks' where most of them are 'Concrete Masonry Units' now, but I can remember when they made blocks with cinders from the railroad as the agregate. Do your blocks show little rusty flakes and rather porus looking holes in them? I used to drive nails directly into the real cinder blocks with just a hammer and they held pretty good. That is how old I am.
    Glenn
     
  9. Jan 28, 2008 #9

    WICinderella

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    i am getting siding put on my 55 year old cinder block house and will either get board foam insulation between 2 x 4s or blown on foam between 2 x 4s. If I get board siding especially I wonder if I should have a moisture barrier like 6 mil polyurethane put under the foam boards or even under the blown on foam. One of the reasons I want the insulation under siding is to keep my house less moist on the inside.
     
  10. Jan 28, 2008 #10

    OLDummy

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    We're still trying to determine the best way to go!

    This block seems to be very "brittle".. will shatter quite easily whether nailed or pilot-screwed. I'm leaning toward gluing siding directly to the block.. with no "barrier" / insulation.. and possibly 5 nails to hold while glue sets. There seems to be concern about exterior humidity (?). Then concentrate on "insulating" the interior walls.... of course that will change the "living sq. footage" ha ha!

    DUH Help!?

    Terry
     
  11. Jan 28, 2008 #11

    OLDummy

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    How do you intend to secure the 2x4's - that is my main concern!

    Terry
     
  12. Jan 28, 2008 #12

    glennjanie

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    There is another option for insulation in your block house. If you can get to the top of the blocks (even in the attic) you can pour vermiculite insulation in them. It does a wonderful job and the only drawback is, if you make a hole in the blocks or there is already a hole (like around a receptacle) the vermiculite will continue to pour out the hole until it empties that core and maybe a couple more. It doesn't change anything inside.
    Do you have the walls covered on the inside? They could be plastered directly or have drywall glued on them (among other things).
    Glenn
     
  13. Jan 29, 2008 #13

    WICinderella

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    I have already had foam blown into the centers of the cinder blocks, which were hollow. This gave me an R-5. The contractor is talking about attaching the 2 x 4s with tap-con screws. There will be 2 x 6s at the corners of the house, to anchor the vinyl siding. I am getting 1 1/2 inches of foam board glued to the cinder block and then also furring strips which are 2 x 4s with screws. Then 1/2 inch of foam board over the 2 x 4s, for about R-11 for all the boards. Then R-4 insulated vinyl siding over that. The contractor said this will be R-15 total added.
     
  14. Jan 29, 2008 #14

    glennjanie

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    That sounds like a plan to me, WICinderella.
    Glenn
     
  15. Jan 31, 2008 #15

    Daryl in Nanoose

    Daryl in Nanoose

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    Well you should notice a big difference, sounds good to me to.
     
  16. Jan 31, 2008 #16

    WICinderella

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    I am thinking of going with another contractor because they don't use 2 x 4s. They use 1 x 3 furring and no screws. They use 2 inch of foam board and also the insulated vinyl siding. I don't really understand how it can adhere strongly enough without screws, but he said they use marine adhesive. Do you think this will hold up as strongly as 2 x 4s and screws? The corners will be fully insulated, unlike with using the 2 x 6s at the corners.
     
  17. Jan 31, 2008 #17

    guyod

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    How do they plan on using 2" foam with 3/4 strips? are they planning on floating the siding 1 1/4 inches?

    Im in the middle of siding a cinder block house. I went with a 5/4 by 3 board and attached it with glue and concrete nails. they are holding very strong im only using 4'x50' 3/8" insulation over top.(what the customer wanted) Im having some splitting issues when nailing im sure it would be alot worse if using a 1x3..

    you are probably looking at an extra $1000 to use 2x4's..

    Im assuming your contractor is an professional and does this for a living im probably is no place to second guess him.. but at the least i would make sure he did other houses like this and check them out..
     
  18. Jan 31, 2008 #18

    WICinderella

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    The contractor #1 using 2 x 4s and screws is asking less than the contractor #2 using 1 x3 furring strips and no screws. What I want is not for the screws to come loose on the 2 x 4s. How are 1 x 3 furring strips attached, always with nails, or sometimes with screws? The only way I can see a 1 x3 furring strip working is if the 1" is against the wall so the strip extends out 3".
     
  19. Jan 31, 2008 #19

    guyod

    guyod

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    Contractor #1 is giving you the better deal then.. screws are better but are more money and take longer so a contractor wanting to use nails is going to want more $$ to use screws.. you can't attach 1x3's on there ends. . there would wouldnt be enough surface area ..would you rather use furring strips because you dont like the idea of using 2x6's on the corners?

    the 2X6 will make for alot stronger corners. the installer needs a nailing surface to attach the corner posts too then a surface to attach the start of the siding. 3" makes it a little tight and if he runs out of nailing surface it will just not get nailed.
     
  20. Jan 31, 2008 #20

    WICinderella

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    My questions are: is the brittleness of cinder block going to causes screws to eventually detach, or is the glue alone weak enough to eventually detach? If screws coming out cause the block to fragment, it that repairable? How much weight can a furring strip hold? Is a 2 x 4 better for holding the 2" foamboard and vinyl siding in place? What kind of foam board, and what kind of foam-backed vinyl siding has the highest R value?
     

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