Is this a weight bearing wall?

Discussion in 'Walls and Ceilings' started by coachgeo, Sep 21, 2013.

  1. Sep 21, 2013 #1

    coachgeo

    coachgeo

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    pictures attached are of home and a closet before and after initial tear down.

    Closet is in addition to original home built in the 60's. While it does not make since that this wall is weight bearing to me...... it does have a header. So could it be part of what holds up the roof of the addition? Nothing but rafters above it? Neither the original structure or the addition have a ridge beam.

    Chimney in the outside picture gives a hint of location of closet. It is against the original structures outer wall (now an interior wall) You can see brick/block chimney in the picture of closet w/sheet rock removed

    Don't want to tear out wood construction with out making sure it's not weight bearing.

    Tiny Wood Heater/Stove will go in what picture shows as interior of closet; but all of that I hope to remove. SS liner going into the old chimney that was originally for an oil furnace. Appears that after furnace removal the box around it was converted to a closet except for a box around the chimney. I want look of ruff/old thus the desire to keep chimney exposed. Eventually may add faux rock on the chimney to match era of log siding to be done on interior/exterior. Will be Amish look of flat side honed log and chinking.

    IS-kuyrystsc0gt.jpg

    1588.jpg

    1607.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2013
  2. Sep 21, 2013 #2

    coachgeo

    coachgeo

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    oh and thanks for any help in advance.

    Side note......... hope to vault the ceilings as well and add a small lofted child's bedroom. Maybe loft the bed in the existing bedroom as well.
     
  3. Sep 21, 2013 #3

    CallMeVilla

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    If you can access the attic area above the closet, you can easily determine if the framing is BEARING. If the framing runs parallel to the ceiling joists, the wall is not bearing, it is called a partition wall.

    I see a typical double top plate framing and a third stud (new) to fram out the closet opening. Makes me think this is just a built-out closet.

    If the framing runs perpendicular to the joists, it might be bearing. You will often see a header or a larger structure to support the upper weight. You will also see doubled 2x4s on the ends, sometimes 4x4 and a 2x4 to carry the weight down to the foundation. In your pciture, I see single stud framing attached to the double top plate, again suggesting this is a partition wall.

    Oh, and if your single story house is built with trusses in the attic, the interior walls typically will not be load bearing either. That geometry carries the weight to the outside walls.

    Can't wait to see what your attic search shows you!

    HOUSE.jpg
     
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  4. Sep 21, 2013 #4

    coachgeo

    coachgeo

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    Can't get up in attic right now but yes this runs parallel to ceiling joist (from wall to wall) and nothing is above it in the attic. Course the closet just happens to run same direction as joist. Granted the two ends that are perpendicular do NOT have any header at all so that lends to thinking it is build out walls.

    Figured as well the newer 2x4 portion of the header was added when reconfiguring the space to closet.

    Should have stated earlier but.......... the one vertical on right side of closet in the pic not yet with gypsum board removed is doubled 2x4
     
  5. Sep 22, 2013 #5

    CallMeVilla

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    If nothing is above then that is a partition wall. Your trick is vaulting the ceiling ... I would drop the ceiling inside the closet to get a clear view of the framing and to plan your vaulting. Just leave the framing in place in the rare and astounding case that I am wrong (which does happen). Drywall is easy to fix ... collapsed houses are not. :D
     
  6. Sep 22, 2013 #6

    coachgeo

    coachgeo

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    The crawl opening to the ceiling is actually inside that closet. I've been up there all ready which is how I know there is no Ridge beam.

    Up there is standard Im guessing 18" apart joist from wall to wall with insulating bats between. Then of course rafters that hold up the roof. Nothing vertical from joist to rafter.

    Wood roof is killer solid. Looks like 2x8 construction. Maybe for snow loads? Probably plywood above that before shingles? Guess it could just be tar paper then shingles? If Im not mistaken the joist can be moved up the rafters at the most 1/3 the distance from roof peak that they sit now? Or I can add a ridge beam some how and remove the Rafters?
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  7. Sep 22, 2013 #7

    CallMeVilla

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    NO, you cannot remove the rafters. You can frame your vaulted ceiling up to the rafters then inmstall collar ties to stabilize the rafters. You will have to insulate and cover the rafter bay. Think of the vaulted ceiling in just the bedroom as you might a light shaft for a skylight ... only larger and no roof penetration. It requires localized framing.

    If you cut out the ceiling joists to create a clear space, you will have to reframe support around the cutout section to create the open space for the vaulting.

    Look here for some ideas: http://blog.armchairbuilder.com/6051/vaulted-ceiling-precautions/

    VAULTED.jpg
     
  8. Sep 22, 2013 #8

    nealtw

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    Before cutting any framing in the ceiling or roof package, take pictures ask questions, ask some more questions. develope a plan and then ask some more questions.
    And hit the like button for Villa before he starts begging again.:)
     
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  9. Sep 22, 2013 #9

    coachgeo

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    I will do nothing with out some engineering drawings done first.
     
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  10. Sep 22, 2013 #10

    coachgeo

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    will look at the link. I may have miss used words. Is not rafters what the roof is nailed to (what runs up at an angle) so of course I would not remove these. Joist run from wall to wall and this is what must be removed to vault........ and then of course some structural changes done to accommodate removed joist. It was my understanding original joist could be removed and moved up deeper into the ceiling at a distance no more than 1/3 higher up the rafter's than they were in the first place.

    I just like to get full understanding of things before asking a pro like an engineer to draw things up. That way I ask right questions and can steer them in direction I really want to go so I don't end up with something not like I really wanted.
     
  11. Sep 22, 2013 #11

    nealtw

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  12. Sep 23, 2013 #12

    coachgeo

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    Thanx...... yeah that is the one and others similar I found the most informative. As that shows...... 1/3 the way up from typical joist location (x in the drawing) is what I mentioned earlier where one would put the new joist (collar tie).

    hb077QA01-03_lg.jpg

    Good thing is that Sandwiching AKA doubling collar ties allowing for every third. I had forgotten about that.

    hb077QA01-04_lg.jpg

    I wonder if it would allow for going every 4th or 5th rafter if you did an even stronger collar tie say double like shown as well as boxing in with another board on top and bottom. Followed by a triangulation to top of wall a little to each side; to spread this stronger collar's affects on the outer wall, This would be to my advantage cause it would look way less busy up there in that small space with less collar ties. I think my joinst are 18" on center........ a bit over kill. Also I want to loft a tiny sleeping loft in a portion of that cathedral space so those joist will be strengthened turning them into floor beams as well. Loft would basically center on the the *outer wall of original structure resulting in loft sitting with 1/2 of it above the addition and 1/2 above the original structure. It would be about 8" deep (red in picture)........ so yeah tiny. Could add header into walls of orginal structure to make them more "structural" and less divider walls to increase ability to hold up loft.

    * in this case outer wall of original structure refered to here is now also an inner wall inside of addition


    IS-kuyrystsc0gtRemodell.jpg

    I've already looked and it appears I have a ridge board but not a ridge BEAM nor POST inside the wall too the foundation. (pier and beam foundation)

    hb077QA01-05_lg.jpg


    Moderator.......... feel free to dissect out the discussion in this thread on cathedral/vaulted ceiling and start a new thread with it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  13. Sep 23, 2013 #13

    nealtw

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    We did one that looked more like a vaulted truss when it was done. The joist ran from the wall on one side to about half way on the opposing rafter, looked good and worked well for insulation and venting. There was an engineer involved.

    timber_scissor_truss_47.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  14. Sep 23, 2013 #14

    coachgeo

    coachgeo

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    that looks interesting. Every rafter or every third orrr? Do you know if you had a ridge "beam" with end supports to foundation or just a ridge board?
     
  15. Sep 23, 2013 #15

    nealtw

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    There was a ridge board but it was not supported, so all the weight was on the walls.
     
  16. Sep 23, 2013 #16

    coachgeo

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    Vewy Intawesting; THANKS.

    Was that arrangement on every rafter or did it skip any.

    I'm assuming all original cross joist were removed.

    Did you attach new ceiling onto those angled cross ties?? or did you leave it open/visable?
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  17. Sep 23, 2013 #17

    coachgeo

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    scissor trust look interesting. Apparently used in home pictured below along with some Faux beefy timber ones added for "look". Though in my case this would not work as well cause I'll need full height of roof to make most use of lofted bed

    scissor_truss1.jpg

    vaulted_ceiling.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  18. Sep 23, 2013 #18

    nealtw

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    That created the new ceiling so it was every one to hold up the drywall.
     
  19. Sep 23, 2013 #19

    coachgeo

    coachgeo

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    OK - Thanx
     
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  20. Sep 24, 2013 #20

    guyod

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    Did you measure the ceiling height in the attic. You said you wanted to create a loft but i only see about 5' of ceiling height at the peak. After you build down the rafters to insulation need min of 9.5 inches it might be even more where you live. Then you will have to add floor joists that can span the width of the house. If your lucky a 2x12 may work . Its going to be alot of work for something an 8 year old will not be able to stand up in.
    If it was me I would take the whole roof off and create a single roof plane making your deck a covered deck. This will give you the ceiling height for a real bedroom. You can use a mix of trusses that will frame out the bedroom for half of it and a cathedral for the other half.
     
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