Metal bar in way of junction box

Discussion in 'Electrical and Wiring' started by dstu, Feb 22, 2010.

  1. Feb 22, 2010 #1

    dstu

    dstu

    dstu

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    I removed the light above my vanity and found that the the previous installer did not install a junction box. The house was built in 1985 so I think there should have been one. Anyway, there is a metal bar that is crossing the hole that conflicts with a new installation. I am prepared to cut this bar away to make room but I would like to know what it is before I create a new problem.

    Does anybody have any idea what this is? And if I can cut it away without any regrets?

    The bar is shown in both of the attached photos. For background. This is an exterior wall. There is a stud located about 1" to the right of the existing cut out. There is a vent pipe on the left edge of the cutout. The metal bar appears to extend from the stud on the right generally in the direction of the stud on the left (outside of the photo). I have seen something like this as bracing for pipes in other locations of the house but in those cases they used copper pipe.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    Derek

    wiring1.jpg

    wiring2.jpg
     
  2. Feb 22, 2010 #2

    Wuzzat?

    Wuzzat?

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    It's one of these adjustable braces. Each end has teeth to dig into the sides of joists. If you loosen the setscrew the thing comes loose.

    Google Image Result for http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/2289593/fanboxbrace_Thumb.jpg

    Or, if you have a wrench like in the pic below
    http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipe...es.png/300px-Monkey_and_Stillson_wrenches.png
    you might be able to put enough torque on the thing so that it releases its grip on the joist sides, and so you can then pull it through the hole. Use a pipe on the wrench handle for extra torque if needed.
    Take it slow with this process.

    You have enough depth for a junction box?
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2010
  3. Feb 22, 2010 #3

    dstu

    dstu

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    That looks like a match. I guess the question I have to ask now is do I find a box to fit the bar or remove the bar and install an standard box.

    Thank you for the rapid feedback!

    Derek
     
  4. Feb 22, 2010 #4

    Wuzzat?

    Wuzzat?

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    If you're not hanging anything heavy I'd remove the bar and use an "old work" box.
    http://www.foxelectricsupply.com/Content/Media/Images/Product/b618r.jpg

    Yeah, that was fast. Coincidence, I guess. . .
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2010
  5. Feb 22, 2010 #5

    ohmy

    ohmy

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    How was the light up there without a box?
     
  6. Feb 22, 2010 #6

    JoeD

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    Peraps the old light did not need a box. The light itself was the junction box.
     
  7. Feb 23, 2010 #7

    Wuzzat?

    Wuzzat?

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    As long as the splice is in a fire-resistant enclosure I don't have a problem with it, but the NEC might.

    Another thing is that some ceiling light fixtures require 90 °C cable instead of 60 °C, and the changeover was around 1985.
    In this case, if you have 60 °C cable you should halve the max fixture wattage and relabel. E.g., the fixture from the store says 200w max, so you never put over 100w worth of bulbs in it, or use CFLs.
    I brought up this idea with UL but they wouldn't say yea or nay on this derating plan. But they understood my point.
     
  8. Feb 23, 2010 #8

    JoeD

    JoeD

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    A fixture must be installed based on the max wattage rating and the manufacturers specs. If it says you need 90ºC wire then you must have it to be code. You can say you will use CFLs but you don't know what the next guy might use.
     
  9. Feb 23, 2010 #9

    Wuzzat?

    Wuzzat?

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    UL's only real objection to the derating seemed to hinge on the label being permanent or not.

    In any case, can you imagine how many fixtures there are in 110M homes in the US that are not in compliance with those labels?

    And have you noticed that the outside of the packaging never mentions this 90 °C requirement? They might lose a sale if they did that.
     
  10. Feb 24, 2010 #10

    JoeD

    JoeD

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    NEC code requires that work install fixtures as labelled and use the highest watt rating when doing any calculations or installation.
     
  11. Feb 24, 2010 #11

    Wuzzat?

    Wuzzat?

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    Yes.
    I imagine they use peoples' built in
    Zero-risk bias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A lot of stuff can be sold using Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.
    Amazon.com: unSpun: Finding Facts in a World of Disinformation (9781400065660): Brooks Jackson, Kathleen Hall Jamieson: Books

    Lemme' ask you: if I ran 20A through #14 copper Romex in free air, what kind of temp. rise above ambient should I see? Does 2°C sound right?
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010
  12. Feb 27, 2010 #12

    triple D

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    If you have not cut it yet, dont! there is a solution for this I use all the time. Go to your supply house or big box store and buy a 3-0 spreadder. This will have a bar on it like you see in your wall. Then get a 3-0 metal pancake box. Then take the metal bracket and two screws off the bar and use these to attach the pancake to the bar in your wall. Bring the romex wire through one of the holes and secure it with the clamp, be sure to wrap it on ground screw. Oh and make sure the power/switch is off. Good luck, hope this helps.
     

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