Need help/suggestions for Deck framing problem.

Discussion in 'Decks & Patios' started by MrMiz, Jun 23, 2014.

  1. Jun 23, 2014 #1

    MrMiz

    MrMiz

    MrMiz

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    Hello! I'm attempting to help out my brother in law with installing his deck. He went down to the deck super store and got them to make him plans. Which he submitted for permit. The plans included post locations. He dug the post holes below the frost line and then I helped him fill them with concrete. Thinking we where all set to go we started the framing from the far side. As soon as I set the first Drop beam we knew that the other end of concrete caisson's where higher than the drop beam. Roughly 4 inches higher to be exact. The drop beam is suppose to be a 2x8. Attached is my best attempt to draw out the problem. Digging down at the one end will change the drainage plain of his back yard. the yard is basically a V and the deck sits close to the middle of that. The red arrow is pointing at the problem.

    So since the caisson's are already in is there anything we can do? from a level line down from the bottom of the deck frame there is only 4.5" of space. So my only thought was put in a 4x4 for the drop beam and then level it up, but looking on the internet it seems as though the horizontal load of a 4X4 isn't enough. Any ideas?

    Thank you for any advice you can give.

    deckproblem.jpg
     
  2. Jun 23, 2014 #2

    inspectorD

    inspectorD

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    Honestly, you need to dig it out..and make the hole deeper. It's a little more work, but the only way to do it right.
    Get a strap around it and pull it up with a lever, like a long 2x8, after you dig around it.
    Then dig the hole, and put it back in.
    Good luck! We have all made that mistake once!!:)
     
  3. Jun 23, 2014 #3

    nealtw

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    I the beam is at the end of the deck like the drawing shows you could raise the beam to the hight of the joists and hang the joists off the side of the beam withthe correct hangers.
     
  4. Jun 23, 2014 #4

    MrMiz

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    <smash head here> that means I need to regrade that whole side of the yard other wise the the drainage plane is right over the top of the caissons on that side..... uggh.




     
  5. Jun 23, 2014 #5

    MrMiz

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    Would we have to shorten the deck back to the drop beam? the deck is currently drawn out with a 2 foot overhang off the drop beam.

     
  6. Jun 23, 2014 #6

    nealtw

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    Yes, I guess you are back to digging. And welcome to the site.
     
  7. Jun 23, 2014 #7

    MrMiz

    MrMiz

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    Any good recommendations for getting the caissons out? They are 10" sonotubes 36" down. The back yard it too tight to get any big equipment in. If I'm going to have pull them I'm going to need a vacation in between... and maybe a doctors appointment.


     
  8. Jun 23, 2014 #8

    nealtw

    nealtw

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    Put a diamond blade in the skill saw and cut all the way around give it a good wack with a hammer.:D

    No digging required, well maybe a little
     
  9. Jun 24, 2014 #9

    CallMeVilla

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    Does your family own a level? Honestly, I am reading this and wondering how the hell this could have happened.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-r12l904ow[/ame]

    Or you could have rented a laser level! Try this ...
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INGdeoB9jYU[/ame]
     
  10. Jun 24, 2014 #10

    nealtw

    nealtw

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    Be nice Villa, experience is learning how to fix mistakes.
    MrMiz. BTW dig a trench around the outside of the deck area and keep the water out from under as much as you can.
     
  11. Jun 24, 2014 #11

    MrMiz

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    There was a separation between the person who has done it before and the person who wanted free labor. It was my fault I showed up thinking "we" had it all planned out so I didn't double check the work that was done without me.
    When I showed up I found out that the plans had been changed and when I was looking at the plans I thought the deck was going to be a full 12" higher than where they actually want it. I only have weekends free so sometimes I try and help other help themselves... what can I say.

    I forgot to say thank you to you all that have provided advice. As someone that is constantly giving away free labor and advice I do truly appreciate knowing there are others out there like me. Even if it is a bit snarky ;-)


     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2014
  12. Jun 24, 2014 #12

    nealtw

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    Don't mind Villa, he gets a little grawly when he hasn't been liked for a while.:p
     
  13. Jul 7, 2014 #13

    MrMiz

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    Projects done. Here is how it turned out.

    IMG_0012.jpg

    IMG_0011.jpg
     
  14. Jul 7, 2014 #14

    bud16415

    bud16415

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    Looks great :beer:
     
  15. Jul 7, 2014 #15

    MrMiz

    MrMiz

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    Thanks! For some reason the smiley faces with beers seems appropriate. 98 degree weather made this deck way harder than any other I have ever done.
     
  16. Jul 7, 2014 #16

    nealtw

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    Looks great, what did you do with the high post?
     
  17. Jul 7, 2014 #17

    oldognewtrick

    oldognewtrick

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    We'll bring the happy beer smilies if you bring the beer...whens the party.

    BTW, looks really nice, good job!
     
  18. Jul 8, 2014 #18

    MrMiz

    MrMiz

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    Believe it or not the inspector calculated the loads and it passed with a 4x4. the loads where sufficient.... color me shocked. BUT that only means it passes code. After finishing up I did a fair amount of human testing with around 600+ pounds (3 chubby guys and 1 skinny guy) all jumping up and down in as close to the same spot and sure enough not even a little bit of bend. So now I leave it up to father time to show me the error of my ways. Here are the calculations he sent us if anybody can geek out that far:

    1 - 4x4 HEM-FIR #2
    Based on top edge having continuous lateral support.
    BENDING:
    Increase in allowable for duration of load =0%
    ALLOWED = 9110.9 inch/lbs
    ACTUAL = 5388.6 inch/lbs
    Bending ratio = 59.1% of the allowable
    Bending OK
    SHEAR: - No increase used
    ALLOWED = 1225 pounds
    ACTUAL = 466.7 pounds
    Shear ratio = 38.1% of the allowable
    Shear OK
    DEFLECTION:
    L/180 = .3333 inches
    L/240 = .25 inches
    L/360 = .1667 inches
    L/480 = .125 inches
    Total Load Deflection = .1213" - L/495
    Live Load Deflection = .0866" - L/693
    Deflection OK for floors and roofs
    Left reaction
    LL =166.7 lbs
    DL =66.7 lbs
    TL =233.3 lbs
    Right reaction
    LL =333.3 lbs
    DL =133.3 lbs
    TL =466.7 lbs

    I thought that after putting some load on it, it was going to keep me up at night. After completing the project and taking a really hard look at what happens with people on it though I'm pretty confident it will last as long as is reasonable for a wood framed deck. Which makes me sleep easy now and it's my brother-in-laws deck and he loves it so that helps too.
     
  19. Jul 8, 2014 #19

    nealtw

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    That's what you call a home owners pass, I know what he would have said to a contractor.:D
     
  20. Jul 8, 2014 #20

    bud16415

    bud16415

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    After completing my deck a couple weeks ago I went straight for a lawn chair and a cold beer. I called it the break in period. Load testing with some fat buddies is good but a deck requires a proper break in period also.

    :beer:
     
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