Need pro advice on a backup sump pump

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum' started by Billbill84, May 8, 2019.

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  1. May 8, 2019 #1

    Billbill84

    Billbill84

    Billbill84

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    So my new house has a fully finished basement that's very nice. I'm concerned about protection against blackouts and or pump failure. I think if i went the battery backup option I'd still worry because I don't trust batteries and a second pedestal pump would be useless in a blackout. So I learned about these backup water powered pumps which would protect against both scenarios! Seems too good to be true, other than a high water bill, still cheaper than a flood though.
    Does anyone have any advise I could use about these water powered backup sump pumps? My main shut off is about 25 ft from the sump room but luckily for me, the last owner had a washer/dryer in there 3 ft from the sump so there's my tie in, right? Are these water powered backups reliable? What's it run to install one? Thx
     
  2. May 15, 2019 #2

    Diehard

    Diehard

    Diehard

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    I'll let others answer your questions.

    I just want to give you a heads up relative to the need for some type of backflow preventer device on you potable water supply. You should check with your local water purveyor as to their exact requirements, as it may vary between jurisdictions.
    The requirements would likely vary depending on whether the discharges from the two types of pumps are piped together or separately. Being piped separately would remove the chance of back pressure on the water service and lessen the device requirements. All depends on your local authority.

    EDIT: If you had to have a testable backflow preventer that would likely mean an annual cost for testing it.
     
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  3. May 16, 2019 #3

    Billbill84

    Billbill84

    Billbill84

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    I'd prefer to have it piped to a completely separate discharge line along side of the primary. Thanks for the back flow preventor tip, I'll definitely look into it. Thx
     
  4. May 22, 2019 #4

    Fireguy5674

    Fireguy5674

    Fireguy5674

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    They have sump pump systems now that will send an alert to your cell phone if the pump or pumps fail and let you know you have a problem. With a fully finished basement, I would be tempted to install two pumps with battery backup and an alert system. Then keep a small generator handy in case the power and the battery fail. The other option is to have a two pump system and install an automatic backup generator which will not only keep your basement dry but your furnace running so your pipes don't freeze. It is just a matter of how far do you want to go and how much money do you want to spend.
     
  5. May 22, 2019 #5

    WyrTwister

    WyrTwister

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    If I installed a generator , it would power more than the pump & HVAC .

    Makes me glad we do not have a basement . That & my old knees are not happy with stairs .

    Wyr
    God bless
     
  6. Jun 17, 2019 #6

    billshack

    billshack

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    this is what i used to install in the sump pit, a little higher that the normal 110 volt sump pump.
    ECOFLO Sump Pump, Battery Back-Up System, 115V/12V DC
    Model # EBBS|Store SKU # 1001021558
    you have to buy a 12 volt deep cycle marine grade battery and it goes inside the cover, there is a microprocessor that charges the battery and supervisores the the pump, there are alarms. i have installed many of these. i used to pipe the second pump independent of primary so if the primary pump piping broke it would not affect the secondary operation.
     
  7. Jun 18, 2019 #7

    68bucks

    68bucks

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    I installed a water power backup in my last place. Same deal finished basement. Flooded 4 times. A water power device is an educator. It does use a lot of water. The capacity is a little low I think usually you pump about 1 gal per 2-3 gallons of water used, depends on inlet pressure and discharge pressure. The bigger the differential the greater the flow. It had a hard time keeping up the 1 time it actually was needed.

    If I were to do it again I would probably have 2 110v pumps and a water backup, though that doesn't work if your on a well. I would also have an alarm both one you hear and one that can contact you. Of my 4 floods 3 were sump related. 1 was a failed float switch. One was a broken check valve that jambed the discharge line and one a failed motor. The 4th flood was backup from the city. I plugged every possible opening from the city ofter that. Insurance eventually would cover the basement. In our part of the country holes in the ground, like a basement, just want to fill with water. I do know a few basements that have sumps that never get water. Ours was active almost 12 months a year.
     
  8. Jun 18, 2019 #8

    hornetd

    hornetd

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    The beauty of a water powered eductor is their simplicity. If you have public water with reasonable pressure they work very reliably. The actual device you want to protect the potable water supply against any possibility of a backflow is a suction breaker. It contains a spring disk check valve and it opens the supply line to the air when the check valve closes. plumbing one is a little tedious because it has to be downstream of the float valve that controls the water to the educter but above the top of the sump. There are other backflow preventers that you can use. Some localities require a particular type so check first.

    Keeping in mind that I'm an electrician and may not use the plumbing terms correctly there is one instructive story I want to share. A client had an eductor that was not keeping up with the water flow during a deluge series of rainstorms. She called me to hook up the generator that her daughter had bought at a big box store. I have also served as a volunteer firefighter for 35 years so I know quite a bit about the communities water supply. I got to the home and hooked up my own generator immediately to deal with the problem, by using a meter base adapter, while I devised a more permanent solution. As soon as I saw her water shut off and it's truly impressive pressure regulator I new that a solution was at hand. I cut in a hose bib with suction breaker upstream of the pressure regulator and put a hose adapter onto the sump supply. I attached the two together with a high quality water hose that could withstand the 125 pound street side pressure and opened the hose bib valve. The regulator was set to 25 pounds on the outlet side. Once that was done the eductor would empty the sump faster than the submersible pump would. My point is that there is often more than one solution to a problem and you need to stay flexible about what might be the best one. I did, of course, call in an actual plumber to make the installation permanent. He had a hell of a time with the permit because the water utility doesn't allow eductor pumps on their system. The permit appeals board decided that their prohibition against them was "arbitrary and capricious."

    --
    Tom Horne
     

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