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68bucks

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As far as my son, he drove alone, met a deputy who is also on covid lockdown, then drove home alone. He works with a group of 7 deputies, who have all tested positive for the vid, all had the same flu symptoms, for 2 days, and after staying home for 10 days, returned back to work. All are fine.

Who are the people not wearing the masks? All grocery stores, all hardware stores, all essential facilities have a mask mandates, but people are still contracting this virus. Why is this?
So he was separated from people so I'm good with that. I would consider fishing on a small boat the same deal. The lock downs are sort of dumb because the majority ignore them I think. When you said your son went out riding knowing he was positive I suddenly conjured up a stop to get fuel, a stop to grab a sandwich, hang out with some other guys at the dunes, you know. Unfortunately there are those people, the don't care, don't understand, or think it's all fake. They are small x% that screw it up for the rest of us. They are the reason do most of the dumb laws we have.
 

68bucks

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What I am saying is how any mask, short of a respirator or N95 mask will do nothing to stop a 3 micron virus, when they are wearing cloth or typical masks that allow a 10 micron opening?
You can pass a large number of tiny particles through a filter media with an opening greater than the largest particle and still catch some. Also I believe a virus is commonly attached to an atomized water droplet respired from your lungs. They are larger and will also tend to coalesce on a fiber of mask. So it's not going to catch everything but it's proven to slow spread. Distance is the biggest deal really.
 

Spicoli43

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What I am saying is how any mask, short of a respirator or N95 mask will do nothing to stop a 3 micron virus, when they are wearing cloth or typical masks that allow a 10 micron opening?
I have seen the size of Covid at .06 to .14 microns, which would get past everything besides Lab / Law / Military tech. Normal masks won't block it, and bandanas are flat out idiotic.

Wearing a "face covering" or a face shield is akin to putting up a chain link fence to stop mosquitos.


 

Flyover

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@havasu I think The virus attaches to aerosols (water droplets) in your breath. When you exhale, the droplets are larger, and they break up as they travel through the air. The mask catches a large proportion of the droplets as they leave your nose and mouth. Of course if you only cover your mouth then all the droplets leaving your nose still get released unfiltered, along with any viruses riding on them.

I'm surprised you haven't heard this information elsewhere already.
 

tomtheelder2020

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Havasu is making what is known as an "argument from personal incredulity." He personally, as a person with no relevant expertise, does not understand why a cloth mask might help, therefore he concludes they likely don't help - regardless of expert opinion. I am not an expert but off the top of my head I can think of ways a 10 micron mask can help. The virus might be only 3 microns but it is expelled in moisture droplets of various sizes. Any droplets bigger than the mask mesh will be blocked. Any fabric is at least somewhat absorbant and will absorb some of the droplets even if they are smaller than the mesh (which is why some fabrics are recommeded for masks and others are not). Masks do not form a absolute seal, therefore much (most? A hole bunch?) of expelled air exits around the edges of the mask. That means that exhalation, instead of a somewhat coherent stream exiting in a single direction, is distributed in multiple directions, more paralell to the persons skin, and at lower velocitry. That means the droplets will stay closer to the person and be less likely to affect someone else. That is why a mask is more important when speaking and why singing near others is considered very high risk,.
 

havasu

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My job is to create dialog, and to encourage others who would like to offer their personal thoughts regarding this pandemic. You may call it "argument from personal incredulity", but I call it my personal opinion and just as you have your opinion, I too have an opinion.
 

Flyover

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I'm just saying, we've been living with the virus and masks and all the arguments about it for a year now. The way masks work, as @tomtheelder2020 just explained, is by now common knowledge, or so I would have thought. I actively avoid social media and ALL journalism, and this knowledge has still penetrated the rock I live under.

What kind of circles do you have to travel in to spend a year and come away with "masks don't work"? Flat-earthers have heard the arguments for why the world is round, but they believe there is a misinformation conspiracy spreading those arguments and that the arguments are lies. Is the same true of those who claim masks don't work?
 
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havasu

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Living outside of Los Angeles, masks are mandated for everyone, but yet our hospitals are overflowing. Ironically, you go into states like Idaho, Utah, Montana, South Dakota, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, etc, and their restaurants are open, masks are optional, and life is going on nearly as it was before covid days. Why is this?

What I am trying to say is that even though I do wear my mask when I leave the house, I also have yet to see anyone not wearing a mask while out in public. So with So Cal mandates, why are we being hit harder than any other state of the union?
 

Spicoli43

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Living outside of Los Angeles, masks are mandated for everyone, but yet our hospitals are overflowing. Ironically, you go into states like Idaho, Utah, Montana, South Dakota, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, etc, and their restaurants are open, masks are optional, and life is going on nearly as it was before covid days. Why is this?

What I am trying to say is that even though I do wear my mask when I leave the house, I also have yet to see anyone not wearing a mask while out in public. So with So Cal mandates, why are we being hit harder than any other state of the union?
Population density. California is only slightly bigger than Montana, but there is barely a million people here. As far as masks in public, I don't know about restaurants because nobody I know goes to them, but the governor mandated masks in every public building.

People in MT are much more immune to cooties than some places because pre Covid, it was routine to see restaurant cooks wipe the sweat off their foreheads and immediately go back to preparing food.

Hence, I don't know anybody that goes to them.
 

slownsteady

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If it slows down the spread of the cloud that comes out of a person's mouth, it is helping.
If it keeps you from forgetting that you need to be an active participant in stopping this thing, then it is helping.
 

zannej

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Masks are like condoms-- they are not 100% effective and they don't work if not worn properly. A lot of people don't wear their masks properly. As others have mentioned, they have them below the nose, below the mouth, they take them off, they touch the insides, they reach inside to scratch. Then they touch other things and sometimes other people. I've seen maskless people cough on their hands and then touch countertops and products. I've seen people lick their fingers and touch shopping bags at self-checkout. I've seen kids with their masks down picking their noses and then touching things.

Where I live, hardly anyone wears a mask and many of the ones who do wear them don't wear them properly.

In addition to blocking water droplets, masks can sometimes be a deterrent/barricade for mouth/nose touching. I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I'm a subconscious nose-scratcher. I don't notice when I do it but I'm trying to make myself aware. Wearing a mask keeps me from doing it. It also keeps me from touching my mouth. I wear multi-layer masks with filters that have flexible metal bands to make them conform to my face better, they aren't N95s, but they keep my hands off my face and they keep my face warm outside in winter.

My best friends maternal grandfather died of Covid pneumonia yesterday.
 

Flyover

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I have yet to see a modern house where I live built without insulation. Yet people still have to heat their houses with furnaces in the winter -- they can't just use the radiant heat from their bodies. Insulation must not work I guess.
 

havasu

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How many here replace their masks daily, let alone using them "one use only" as required?

Regarding density, this is one thing I will agree with you on.
 

Flyover

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The "one use only" guideline is typically for people with a high probability of being in close contact with others who are sick, like for example healthcare workers. Also, some types of masks can be cleaned and then reused. There's strong evidence that UV light kills the coronavirus, so leaving a used mask out in the sun for a few hours is a pretty good way to disinfect it. At that point it's a question of whether it's sustained enough wear & tear to warrant replacing. (This is my understanding; I could be wrong.)

But again: is here on Houserepairtalk in January 2021 really the first time you're hearing this information??
 
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zannej

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I have re-usable masks that can be washed and they have replacement filters. I take out the filters, wash them on deep clean sanitize mode (my washer has that feature), and replace the filters. I also have multiple masks so I can switch out. A lot of people don't do that. But, some effort is better than no effort at all. Wearing a mask properly is a start. It can hinder direct spray from people talking, coughing, and/or sneezing.

Honestly, if people would wash their hands, cover their noses/mouths when sneezing/coughing, distance, and take some of these measures when they have the flu, we would probably have less spread of the flu.
 

Spicoli43

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In all these months, I have never heard it described as simple as that. Most of the sources try to avoid the obvious.

As far as being "positive", I would wager that any of us without obvious symptoms could test positive, simply based on fruit testing positive in May, and
Elon Musk testing positive and negative twice each on the same day in November, meaning the tests are no more accurate now than they were back then.

Nobody knows the death count, but it's not even in the same stratosphere as they claim.
 

zannej

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So, the Moderna vaccine is now available in my area. Our GP said my mother should get it asap. Trying to find where she can get an appointment. There are 3 options it seems but she needs to choose one. All of the medical personnel at my doctor's office have been vaccinated and have not had problems with it. Some places are still doing the Pfizer vaccine as well.
 
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zannej

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Anyone heard much about the differences between the Pfizer vaccine and the Moderna vaccine? I've read the Moderna one stays good in a broader range of temperatures but I haven't heard anything consistent about side effects, effectiveness, etc.
 

havasu

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Zanne, no idea as to which vaccine is suppose to be better. After just finding out that this vaccine will be administered on either a bi-annual or annual basis, maybe try one this year, then try the other next year?
 
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