Odd/Damaged supports in attic

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timma100

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I am a first time home buyer, the home inspector checked everything including the attic and said it was well taken care of. I was running Ethernet for some wireless access points in the attic and found what is in the attached image. They’re on each corner of the home and in multiple other locations throughout the attic… they all look identical, surely this can’t be correct.. any input would be great, thanks!
 

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Snoonyb

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Welcome.
How did you come by this inspector?
 

timma100

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After some thought, my assumption is these became dislodged after the home settled or an earthquake… either way, I assume the only way to fix this is to jack/support the roof and replace them. Or am I completely off in my assumptions?
 

Snoonyb

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Thanks, have you contacted both the realtor and the senior at the inspection CO. with your concerns?
 

timma100

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Thanks, have you contacted both the realtor and the senior at the inspection CO. with your concerns?
Started with the realtor this morning and will be reaching out to the inspection company this afternoon. I doubt a resolution will come from their side, but hopefully some direction on the best path forward. Either through home warranty (Highly doubtful) or insurance claim... Or litigation..

Next time you purchase a home, do your own research and hire an independent home inspector, one that's not tied to your realtor.
Thank you for the advice, honestly we were concerned about a conflict of interest. They're obligated to pass the home so the sale goes through and they both make money. Works fine on 99% of homes but these issues should have been identified immediately. This is a double whammy, this inspector also said the roof was serviceable, so we scheduled solar to be installed, all to find out from the solar install team the roof had to be replaced. So in preparation for the roof replacement, I found these issues in the attic.. I could understand the roof oversight, the roof was serviceable if you didn't touch it. But this crossed the line to me.

Thank you both for your replies, it has been very helpful getting me going in the right direction.
 

oldognewtrick

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"Serviceable" is a term often used to not obligate the inspector to quantifying a life expectancy of the existing roof covering. It's stating that there are no apparent deficiencies that require immediate attention.

When ever I have friends that are considering a home purchase, I recommend having a HVAC company, electrician, structural engineer if there's any structure questions, roofing company etc come and do independent inspections. It's well within your rights to ask for these inspections. Home inspectors are good for what they do, but it's hard to be everything for everybody.
 

timma100

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Thanks, have you contacted both the realtor and the senior at the inspection CO. with your concerns?
Home inspector reached out to me, this wasn't something that was missed. His inspection only covered the original roof construction, and as these supports were an addition/not original. The supports being broken was not an issue/mark down on his inspection. So looks like I'm getting a roofer out to inspect and see what they think.
 

joecaption

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That looks like some poorly done DIY homeowner repair that would not have worked the way it was done.
No insurance company of any kind is going to do anything for you on this one.
A roofing company is also going to be most likely useless on this one, they do roofs, this is framing.
A real contractor or at least a framer is who I would contact.
 

bud16415

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As to your actual problem you discovered it seems really odd that you found a bunch of places all supported like this and all displaced like this. If you found one I would say someone was going to hang something heavy from the ceiling and wanted a little extra support and added this framing to help move the load up to a rafter. Being in all for corners on the jack rafters and done the same way and you living in CA makes me wonder if someone was prepping for a quake and maybe even saw a quake to shift them like that. If you could find the last owner or as neighbors someone might know something. To me it just doesn’t look like normal framing and I don’t see it hurting anything.



I would get a big C-clamp and pull the two pieces back into place and run some long deck screws into how the nails were used.



As to your roof and adding solar. Shingles say 30 years and likely might be good for 20 before you start watching them. I know lots of people that replace them at 20 because they start to worry. I personally wouldn’t want solar on top of a shingle roof but then again maybe the solar will only last 20 years as well. It is hard when you buy a home to judge where the roofs lifespan is at and the only time the seller points it out is when the roof is pretty new. I doubt you would be able to nail the seller or inspector or insurance down on it. If I wanted solar I would want to start off with new roofing anyway.



The sheathing on the roof looks really new in your photo. How old is the house?

Another thought just occurred. The builder could have put those in when he built the roof with stick framing just to hold the jack rafters up as he was building and then when he tied them together at the top he whacked those braces to allow for a little movement to join the ridge and then just left the scrap in there.
 

timma100

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As to your actual problem you discovered it seems really odd that you found a bunch of places all supported like this and all displaced like this. If you found one I would say someone was going to hang something heavy from the ceiling and wanted a little extra support and added this framing to help move the load up to a rafter. Being in all for corners on the jack rafters and done the same way and you living in CA makes me wonder if someone was prepping for a quake and maybe even saw a quake to shift them like that. If you could find the last owner or as neighbors someone might know something. To me it just doesn’t look like normal framing and I don’t see it hurting anything.



I would get a big C-clamp and pull the two pieces back into place and run some long deck screws into how the nails were used.



As to your roof and adding solar. Shingles say 30 years and likely might be good for 20 before you start watching them. I know lots of people that replace them at 20 because they start to worry. I personally wouldn’t want solar on top of a shingle roof but then again maybe the solar will only last 20 years as well. It is hard when you buy a home to judge where the roofs lifespan is at and the only time the seller points it out is when the roof is pretty new. I doubt you would be able to nail the seller or inspector or insurance down on it. If I wanted solar I would want to start off with new roofing anyway.



The sheathing on the roof looks really new in your photo. How old is the house?

Another thought just occurred. The builder could have put those in when he built the roof with stick framing just to hold the jack rafters up as he was building and then when he tied them together at the top he whacked those braces to allow for a little movement to join the ridge and then just left the scrap in there.
That was my thought as well as far as the earthquake preparation. The home was built in 1987 so she's 34 years old, and its the original roof (except for an additional layer of shingles added 17 years ago) since we're in the Mojave desert, everything gets preserved pretty well. What you mentioned about them being temp supports for the jack rafters makes so much sense. How far they're kicked out, their location, everything adds up. If an earthquake or the home settling had unseated them, they wouldn't have been knocked out so far, just slipped past the rafter.
 

bud16415

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Yep the more I think about it and the age of the house etc. Everyone is used to setting trusses today for every style you can think of, but building stick frame and working alone you need some help. As I get older I do more with rigging because I can't hold it and do what I need to do at the same time. If something shook the place that hard there would be all kinds of other stuff pulled apart.

Take them out or leave them alone or put them back up for a little more support and better looks.

How's the venting up there? That can have a lot to do with roof life as well.
 

timma100

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Yep the more I think about it and the age of the house etc. Everyone is used to setting trusses today for every style you can think of, but building stick frame and working alone you need some help. As I get older I do more with rigging because I can't hold it and do what I need to do at the same time. If something shook the place that hard there would be all kinds of other stuff pulled apart.

Take them out or leave them alone or put them back up for a little more support and better looks.

How's the venting up there? That can have a lot to do with roof life as well.
Attic venting leaves a lot to be desired, I checked the soffits are they're free of any obstruction, and the upper vents are clear. It's all passive/convection.. On a 98 degree day, I checked the attic temperature and it was 130 degrees. Keep in mind, the summer June/July/Aug/Sep sees consistent 110+ every day. So attic temperatures are easily exceeding 140. I will be installing a powered exhaust fan, currently there are three passive vents, may install 2 powered and leave 1 static vent for when the powered vents are off.
 

oldognewtrick

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Attic venting leaves a lot to be desired, I checked the soffits are they're free of any obstruction, and the upper vents are clear. It's all passive/convection.. On a 98 degree day, I checked the attic temperature and it was 130 degrees. Keep in mind, the summer June/July/Aug/Sep sees consistent 110+ every day. So attic temperatures are easily exceeding 140. I will be installing a powered exhaust fan, currently there are three passive vents, may install 2 powered and leave 1 static vent for when the powered vents are off.
You may want to rethink leaving a passive vent near the ridge, when the power vents are activated, it will turn the remaining passive vent into an intake vent. You want air flow from the soffit to the ridge, leaving the passive vent will short cycle your venting. You also want to be sure you have adequate intake vents along the soffit to support the power vents.
 

Snoonyb

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"Home inspector reached out to me, this wasn't something that was missed. His inspection only covered the original roof construction, and as these supports were an addition/not original."

This is BS! The inspection covers the total structure and all the components there-in, unless specific items are noted as excluded. IT'S A COURTESY!, and protects them civilly.

Having framed in LA, OC, SGV, VENT. and Riverside for 45yrs, I've never used or installed a brace under a hip rafter, but as bud mentioned, if you are single handed, it could be a necessary cripple.

You'll find that all the purlin rafter braces are resting upon a load bearing wall, so, if the offending braces under the hip rafters, are not resting upon a load bearing wall, simply remove them, which in tern, removes any subsequent confusion.
 

Sparky617

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What does the bottom of the 2x4 rest on in the ceiling? I'd almost be inclined to think this was temporary bracing that was left in place after the roof was finished. I'd really need to see more angles and what its sitting on to go any further though. How old is the house? The rafters look quite a bit older than the OSB on the roof deck.
 

Sparky617

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With respect to the home inspectors. My wife is a real estate agent and has vendors off all sorts that they use on a regular basis including home inspectors. Buying a house is something most people only do a few times in their lives and likely do not have relationships with the many types of people my wife uses on a regular basis. Since home inspectors are generally hired by the buyer, not the seller it is incumbent on them to help identify issues with the house. I've read many of their inspection reports and they are very thorough and not everything they identify is something you can always get the seller to fix. Right now the way the market it a lot of buyers are making no contingency offers on houses and forgoing the inspection. Sellers are usually getting multiple offers and if you make an offer contingent on inspections your offer won't be considered. I don't know how long this market can last, but it is definitely a sellers market right now in many areas of the country.
 

bud16415

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With respect to the home inspectors. My wife is a real estate agent and has vendors off all sorts that they use on a regular basis including home inspectors. Buying a house is something most people only do a few times in their lives and likely do not have relationships with the many types of people my wife uses on a regular basis. Since home inspectors are generally hired by the buyer, not the seller it is incumbent on them to help identify issues with the house. I've read many of their inspection reports and they are very thorough and not everything they identify is something you can always get the seller to fix. Right now the way the market it a lot of buyers are making no contingency offers on houses and forgoing the inspection. Sellers are usually getting multiple offers and if you make an offer contingent on inspections your offer won't be considered. I don't know how long this market can last, but it is definitely a sellers market right now in many areas of the country.
You are correct. I have been hearing of people recently around here buying homes without ever setting foot on the property sometimes only seeing photos of the outside of the house. I think it is absolutely crazy just as paying over list seems insane to me but it is what it is. I was talking to a guy that found out early a house was coming to market and he went and found the agent and said he wanted it and was willing to offer list price to get it and had been I the house years before. She said ok and took his offer and a couple days later he found out he didn’t get it as the buyer offered 20% more. It was so unheard of that he was 100% sure he had it. now he is grumbling.



When we bought our house it was in such bad condition actually unlivable I joked with the agent if I could hire an inspector to make a list of what was right with the house as it would be much shorter. In my day as a young man you brought along your dad or grandfather or uncle someone that you trusted that knew something when you took a second look at the one you wanted.

In the last ten years we helped her brother twice with selling his homes and the inspector gave them a list of must do items before the sale made by and inspector. IMO if I was the buyer I would rather have done the items myself as have the homeowner rush the repairs. I remember one item was the guest bedroom toilet had a crack in the tank lid. The whole house had all high end matching toilets and to get a lid would take months. The list said replace the lid or the whole toilet so we went and bought the cheapest toilet they sold and I switched it for him. The girls were slapping paint on a fence etc.
 
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