Paver patio/walk & water

Discussion in 'Decks & Patios' started by HoneyDoer, Sep 20, 2012.

  1. Sep 20, 2012 #1

    HoneyDoer

    HoneyDoer

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    We have a new paver patio with a walk over to our deck. When we get heavy rain a portion of the walk is under an inch or two of water while it's raining. Will this eventually cause issues with the integrity of that section of the walk?
     
  2. Sep 20, 2012 #2

    oldognewtrick

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    What part of the country are you in and what type of soil conditions do you have?
     
  3. Sep 20, 2012 #3

    notmrjohn

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    It probably will" cause issues with the integrity of that section of the walk? " Besides being splashy to walk thru. Which if you have, or are a kid, even at heart, can be a good thing.
    What kind of walk is it? If pavers, remove low ones, some a distance either side to get a nice slope instead of a bump,. build up sub strata replace pavers.
    Concrete? Bit more work, jack up section, pack substrate under. Cut and lift section, and raise sub... etc. Perhaps pour layer of concrete over it if layer will be thick enuff to avoid cracking, and will bond to old.
    If water is merely flowing over walk while raining and not standing after rain, divert flow with small berm, or surface collector, solid drain pipe under walk to diffuser on other side.
    Don't let anyone talk you into French drain, this is not French drain situation.
     
  4. Sep 29, 2012 #4

    BridgeMan

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    French drain should work just fine (if done correctly).

    Sorry if not everyone agrees.
     
  5. Sep 29, 2012 #5

    notmrjohn

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    A French drain is for collecting persistent ground water. It is an underground system of perforated pipe, gapped pipe, tile or similar buried in coarse aggregate and covered with soil.
    Op's problem is surface water, temporary flow. Raising low spots, lowering high, surface drains and solid pipe are used to remove surface water.
    people mis-use French drain for any drainage system, could lead to micommunication with suppliers, constructors. Using pre-fab French drain pipe for drainage pipe could cause more problems than it solves.
     
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  6. Sep 29, 2012 #6

    BridgeMan

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    A properly constructed French drain should work just fine. There are no federal, state or local laws that prohibit French drains from dealing with surface or ground water, despite what others have been led to believe. I've designed and built several that were very effective as they carried away temporary flows of surface water--the last two were in the Pacific NW, with an annual rainfall of close to 80 inches per year.
     
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  7. Sep 30, 2012 #7

    Wuzzat?

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    Icing will create a personnel hazard.

    My soil does not drain fast enough for a French drain.
    http://easycalculation.com/physics/fluid-mechanics/french-drain-seepage-rate.php

    See 9.3 below
    ftp://ftp.fao.org/fi/CDrom/FAO_Training/FAO_Training/General/x6706e/x6706e09.htm
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2012
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  8. Sep 30, 2012 #8

    notmrjohn

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    Of course there are no laws prohibiting use of French drain for purpose for which it was not designed. I do not know anyone who was led to believe that or anyone who led them. For removing surface water a French drain is inefficient compared to surface drain. To be a French drain it has to be covered with aggregate to collect water and that with soil to prevent flooding collector. Using French drain to collect surface water leads to rapid clogging of aggregate and pipe. It is not a factor of amount or rate of rain fall but how much water remains on surface or as Wuzzat brought up soil permeability. ( That was a scary link Wuzzy, all kindsa math and stuff. other link had lil guys diggin tiger traps full of water.)

    If all water soaks into ground you do not need a drain at all. If all water does not soak into ground you need a surface collector and drain line. Using French drain to collect ground water so more water can soak in is spending too much labor and money to do job, usually less efficiently. Too many people do that.

    Using French drain as a surface drain is again more expensive than surface drain.

    But many people use "French drain" to mean any drainage system using collectors and buried drains. You can use a hammer to drive a screw, but that is not what either was designed for and there are proper, more efficient, uses for both. But then hardly anyone calls a hammer a screwdriver.

    Mr French did not develop and popularize the drain now bearing his name to remove surface water.
    You can do it, but there are better cheaper ways.
     
  9. Sep 30, 2012 #9

    Wuzzat?

    Wuzzat?

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    Yeah, and the civil engineering books on this are even worse.

    BTW, with the French thing, if you have a lot of rainfall the ground may saturate and the drain will stop working just when you need it.
    Pumps and motors with battery backup can do wonders.
     
  10. Sep 30, 2012 #10

    notmrjohn

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    "stop working just when you need it." I wonder if there is battery back up for home and auto insurance?
    I am getting ready to do the sump and pump thing maseff. Got an inside corner outside. ( If that makes sense.)
    Last frog drowner we had water came over slab foundation, sill, and wall plate into house. And of course, just few hours earlier had just finished last piece of shoe mold on laminate flooring I just layed. Bringing plastic sheet moisture barrier under laminate and up wall behind base board just meant water couldn't escape.

    Shoveled some dirt to make temp berms. Dug out a bit at corner to make mud hole. Been waiting till it cooled off enough to dig hole for sump. 'Course, start of cool season is start of rain season. Can't dig in rain, can't dig wet gumbo clay, don't need hole when not raining. All is well, not so well as will be when have sump well and dry well. Will be weller then, well, will be if I can will myself to get wells dug.
    BTW How you doin on the walk, honey? Hope all is well with you. Well, better go now, don't wanta fall into that well of wellings again.
     
  11. Sep 30, 2012 #11

    CallMeVilla

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    Why not use a ground drain, i.e., landscape drain, to carry the temporary water away? We use them and they work just fine to carry the water to the curb.

    To the original question? YES. The standing water will saturate the substrate soil so stay off the walkway when it is wet! Simple? I get the sense these pavers are NOT cemented.

    Ultimately, your problem is standing water. Fix that problem and you are on your way to being done.
     
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  12. Sep 30, 2012 #12

    notmrjohn

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    That's 3 votes for surface, ground, landscape drain.
    "I get the sense these pavers are NOT cemented." Me too.
    But then I never been accused of having much of that, sense I mean. My head is as hard as concrete.
     

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