Rehanging 7'x8' Wood Bank Barn Door on Cinder Block

[Surfa]

Hi all,
First time poster here. Our bank barn lower barn door had rotted out behind the track. The barn's exterior 1" thick slats hung down behind a 2" thick horizontal board which the barn door track was attached to with bolts going through part of the head jamb (not sure if that's what it's called). There is no access to the bolt heads, just the shank/threads. I don't have the exact dimensions but the head jamb consists of two single parallel long cement blocks with about a half inch gap between them. Shining a light in the gap, I cannot see the bolt heads. My initial thought was to measure the bolts on center and map out/drill them out on the new boards. I did a trial board and realized that even the slightest bend in the bolt makes it difficult to get the board all the way to head jamb. I'm thinking this is not going to go the way I hoped - there's 10 bolts total over 18' of horizontal board. I have to map the existing bolts for a 8'+ board and a 9'+ board and am afraid I'm going to crack the head jamb trying to get the boards up since some of the bolts have a slight downward bend. I'm not sure what the best way to approach this is. If I put in new bolts, I'd have to go all the way through both head jambs since I doubt I can do anything with the 1/2" gap, correct? Any suggestions? I'll guess that the door weighs about 250 lbs. Thanks and Happy New Year!

 

[PJB12]

Hi Surfa,

To attach the wood to the cement blocks, have you considered Concrete Screws instead of through bolts?
Without seeing the application in person, I may be misunderstanding what you need to accomplish, but concrete screws have a rather high shear value and a high pull-put rating. (TDS for Tapcon is attached below)

The three most known brands are Tapcon, Hilti and Confast. They come in hex head for fast installing and in flat head for a flush surface. The two most common sized are 3/16" and 1/4" diameter. Hilti's come at least up to 1" diameter. Almost all are rated for outdoor use.

I suggest a liner, perhaps Sill Seal or a slice of rubber cove base, between the wood and the masonry to prevent trapped moisture.

https://www.tapcon.com/Products/Genuine-Tapcon-Screw-Anchors/Genuine-Tapcon/

Paul

 

[Surfa]

Hi Surfa,

To attach the wood to the cement blocks, have you considered Concrete Screws instead of through bolts?
Without seeing the application in person, I may be misunderstanding what you need to accomplish, but concrete screws have a rather high shear value and a high pull-put rating. (TDS for Tapcon is attached below)

The three most known brands are Tapcon, Hilti and Confast. They come in hex head for fast installing and in flat head for a flush surface. The two most common sized are 3/16" and 1/4" diameter. Hilti's come at least up to 1" diameter. Almost all are rated for outdoor use.

Hi Surfa,

To attach the wood to the cement blocks, have you considered Concrete Screws instead of through bolts?
Without seeing the application in person, I may be misunderstanding what you need to accomplish, but concrete screws have a rather high shear value and a high pull-put rating. (TDS for Tapcon is attached below)

The three most known brands are Tapcon, Hilti and Confast. They come in hex head for fast installing and in flat head for a flush surface. The two most common sized are 3/16" and 1/4" diameter. Hilti's come at least up to 1" diameter. Almost all are rated for outdoor use.

I suggest a liner, perhaps Sill Seal or a slice of rubber cove base, between the wood and the masonry to prevent trapped moisture.

https://www.tapcon.com/Products/Genuine-Tapcon-Screw-Anchors/Genuine-Tapcon/

Paul

I suggest a liner, perhaps Sill Seal or a slice of rubber cove base, between the wood and the masonry to prevent trapped moisture.

https://www.tapcon.com/Products/Genuine-Tapcon-Screw-Anchors/Genuine-Tapcon/

Paul

Hi Paul,
Not sure what's going on with my replies, but sorry about that. I don't know much about attaching things to concrete and figured I would try the idea of mapping out the bolts but only to realize it's a hassle. I'll look into using concrete screws/anchors instead. Thanks.

 

[PJB12]

Hello Surfa,
If you decide to use concrete screws or anchors, I'd suggest starting with the screws. The reason is that the holes are smaller than with anchors, so if something goes wrong, you can switch to anchors & drill larger in the same spot.

Should you decide to use the existing studs, you can hold the board in position and moderately tap on the face. The studs will leave indentations in the wood so that you'll know where to drill.

If you decide that you would rather use the existing bolts, perhaps it would be acceptable to drill the holes in the wood a little larger than the bolt diameters to compensate for the bent ones. You can use fender washers under the nuts. You'll have to figure out if the amount over-size you will need to drill versus holding the board where you need it is acceptable.

I don't think I'd be inclined to try to bend the studs straight.

 

[Surfa]

Hi PBJ12,
I painted the bolt ends, tapped the board to the painted ends, and also measured the distances of the bolts. With the bent bolts, it was still difficult to get the board up even with holes drilled out at a half inch - I think the bolts are 3/8". I got the first board up but need to put another on top of it to make the thickness 3". Either way, I think I'm going to saw off the bolt ends and go with screwing it in. Thanks for the tip on screws first and anchors second if things go wrong. Even if I use self-tapping screws, do you suggest drilling pilot holes first?
Thanks again and go Lions!

 

[Surfa]

Hello Surfa,
If you decide to use concrete screws or anchors, I'd suggest starting with the screws. The reason is that the holes are smaller than with anchors, so if something goes wrong, you can switch to anchors & drill larger in the same spot.

Should you decide to use the existing studs, you can hold the board in position and moderately tap on the face. The studs will leave indentations in the wood so that you'll know where to drill.

If you decide that you would rather use the existing bolts, perhaps it would be acceptable to drill the holes in the wood a little larger than the bolt diameters to compensate for the bent ones. You can use fender washers under the nuts. You'll have to figure out if the amount over-size you will need to drill versus holding the board where you need it is acceptable.

I don't think I'd be inclined to try to bend the studs straight.

Hi PBJ12,
I painted the bolt ends, tapped the board to the painted ends, and also measured the distances of the bolts. With the bent bolts, it was still difficult to get the board up even with holes drilled out at a half inch - I think the bolts are 3/8". I got the first board up but need to put another on top of it to make the thickness 3". Either way, I think I'm going to saw off the bolt ends and go with screwing it in. Thanks for the tip on screws first and anchors second if things go wrong. Even if I use self-tapping screws, do you suggest drilling pilot holes first?
Thanks again and go Lions!

 

[PJB12]

Hi PBJ12,
I painted the bolt ends, tapped the board to the painted ends, and also measured the distances of the bolts. With the bent bolts, it was still difficult to get the board up even with holes drilled out at a half inch - I think the bolts are 3/8". I got the first board up but need to put another on top of it to make the thickness 3". Either way, I think I'm going to saw off the bolt ends and go with screwing it in. Thanks for the tip on screws first and anchors second if things go wrong. Even if I use self-tapping screws, do you suggest drilling pilot holes first?
Thanks again and go Lions!

Outside of The Box Idea-
Made are barn door tracks. I wonder if one of those would make your job easier. (Samples sown below)

Would a 4 x 4 ripped down to 3" thick make your job easier than sandwiching two boards? A (real) lumber yard will do the ripping if desired.

To get the 3" thickness, you could screw the boards together on the ground and then fasten the entire package at once. Or, you could screw one board up, countersinking the fasteners. Then apply the next board with outdoor rated construction screws. For 250 pounds, plus torque of movement when operating the door, probably something such as #9 x 2-1/2" GRK RSS screws would be fine to hold the two boards together.



Concrete screws such as Tapcon and Confast cut their own threads in the concrete as you install them. The screws should penetrate the concrete at least the thickness of what you are attaching, with one inch minimum for anything.

One drills the specified size pilot hole in the concrete and a clearance hole in the wood. Drill a bit deeper than the fastener's penetration so the dust that is made when the screw is driven has a place to go.
After drilling blow the dust out of the hole with a soda straw or similar before screwing the fastener in.

A tip for drilling concrete is to never make a pilot hole like we would do with steel. If a small pilot hole is made, the next size drill bit will bind & can throw you off of the ladder.

Concrete screws are hardened and can snap if too much torque is applied. I suggest screwing them in by hand if time permits. A driver with the clutch set on very light torque is OK, then finish by hand.

Hope This Helps,
Paul

 

[Surfa]

Outside of The Box Idea-
Made are barn door tracks. I wonder if one of those would make your job easier. (Samples sown below)

Would a 4 x 4 ripped down to 3" thick make your job easier than sandwiching two boards? A (real) lumber yard will do the ripping if desired.

To get the 3" thickness, you could screw the boards together on the ground and then fasten the entire package at once. Or, you could screw one board up, countersinking the fasteners. Then apply the next board with outdoor rated construction screws. For 250 pounds, plus torque of movement when operating the door, probably something such as #9 x 2-1/2" GRK RSS screws would be fine to hold the two boards together.



Concrete screws such as Tapcon and Confast cut their own threads in the concrete as you install them. The screws should penetrate the concrete at least the thickness of what you are attaching, with one inch minimum for anything.

One drills the specified size pilot hole in the concrete and a clearance hole in the wood. Drill a bit deeper than the fastener's penetration so the dust that is made when the screw is driven has a place to go.
After drilling blow the dust out of the hole with a soda straw or similar before screwing the fastener in.

A tip for drilling concrete is to never make a pilot hole like we would do with steel. If a small pilot hole is made, the next size drill bit will bind & can throw you off of the ladder.

Concrete screws are hardened and can snap if too much torque is applied. I suggest screwing them in by hand if time permits. A driver with the clutch set on very light torque is OK, then finish by hand.

Hope This Helps,
Paul

Hi Paul,
We have a track for the door that isn't shown in the pictures. It's just a matter of getting the board(s) up to hang the track on. We do have plenty of lumber mills in the area but I was hoping to use treated wood to avoid future rot which is why I'm going with sandwiching two 2x8". The original board was one 18' long rough cut 2x8" placed over a roughcut 1x8". I suppose the area where the two boards are together could collect water and rot faster than having one long non-treated board from the sawmill. Thanks for all the tips and hopefully I'll be getting the door hung back up soon.

 

[PJB12]

Hi Paul,
We have a track for the door that isn't shown in the pictures. It's just a matter of getting the board(s) up to hang the track on. We do have plenty of lumber mills in the area but I was hoping to use treated wood to avoid future rot which is why I'm going with sandwiching two 2x8". The original board was one 18' long rough cut 2x8" placed over a roughcut 1x8". I suppose the area where the two boards are together could collect water and rot faster than having one long non-treated board from the sawmill. Thanks for all the tips and hopefully I'll be getting the door hung back up soon.

Hi Surfa,
It sounds like yo are on the way to an excellent & long lasting repair job!

One thing I suggest is not to buy the treated lumber from a home center where it is stored indoors & stacked without spacers. Every time I've purchased treated lumber from one of them, it twists very quickly- sometimes before I even get it unloaded. I believe that is because it never has a chance to dry thoroughly. However, the home centers in your area may have better quality items. (You'll be able to tell if it's still wet when you touch the lumber.)

I've had the best success with treated (and plain) lumber & sheet goods from lumber yards where the product is stacked properly and stored outside under cover. It costs more, but no troubles.

I hope the project goes well & be sure to let us know how it went!
Paul