Rotted bottom plate and sub floor.

Discussion in 'Carpentry and Woodworking' started by 92RSLT1, Jan 10, 2018.

Help Support House Repair Talk by donating using the link above.
  1. Jan 10, 2018 #1

    92RSLT1

    92RSLT1

    92RSLT1

    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi!

    First post, I came here looking for some recommendations.

    My house is not that old, less than 20 years and yet due to some oversight from whomever built it the house is rotted 50% around the perimeter.

    I have been looking at this for a few years now and am finally going to tackle it this coming summer.

    This happened for a few reasons. first being the flashing is too low, second the tyvek is cut too high and third they used j channel on the bottom of the siding which acted as a funnel and dumped the water right into the corners of the house.

    My problem is, I need to be able to jack up the house without tearing the inside apart or without tearing the deck off. That is why it has not been done yet.

    I cant jack it up from the basement because the load will remain on the wall.
    I cant jack it up from inside because it will ruin the hardwood flooring and ceiling.
    If I jack it up from the outside I will have trouble sliding the new plywood and bottom plate for the wall.

    My idea is to jack it up from within the wall, and to cut sections of the bottom plate and sub floor out, set a few jacks on the sill plate and create a load bearing beam between the studs that I can use lift the wall just enough to slide in about 12 inches of sub floor and a new bottom plate.

    The problem with this is that I will have to notch a groove in the sub floor and wall plate about an inch wide where the jacks are, to allow me to slide them in.

    Has anyone ever attempted this on a 2 story house before? and does anyone have any ideas on how I can get the plate and sub floor in without my jack getting in the way?

    Thank you!

    IMG_8315.jpg

    image1.jpg
     
  2. Jan 10, 2018 #2

    Wuzzat?

    Wuzzat?

    Wuzzat?

    Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    2,471
    Likes Received:
    175
    Being home & sick I've got some time on my hands. And no replies yet, so. . .

    There's enormous downward force on the walls
    "between 80,000 and 160,000 pounds"
    but it's distributed throughout the perimeter [a 200' perimeter would give you 400 to 800 lbs distributed over each foot]
    so the downward force on a 1.5" wide horizontal section is not that large.

    FWIW,
    let's say your sill plate is 2x4 (1.5 x 3.5).
    I propose making, or being made by someone, many wedges of wood or rustproof metal with a max length of 3.5" but only the first half inch of length that you drive in is wedge shaped. The rest has parallel sides.
    After it's driven you'd see a square, 1.5x1.5.

    But you first gouge out the rot to make room for the wedge. The gap shouldn't close up very much, but measure b4 & after.

    With such a wedge shape you'd need a large sledge hammer or some type of power hammer to drive it.
    You could make a longer wedge shape in the front for easier driving but then the parallel surfaces that carry the load would be smaller.
    A totally triangle-shaped wedge would tend to balloon the studs outward.

    The gradual lifting of small sections reduces the likelihood of house damage but have a helper monitor the walls while you drive the wedges.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  3. Jan 11, 2018 #3

    92RSLT1

    92RSLT1

    92RSLT1

    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the reply!

    So if I am understanding this right, drive the wedge in to spread the gap enough to fill the void with the sub floor and bottom plate?

    My question would be how to get the sub floor and bottom plate in with the wedges in there?

    bottom plate and studs are 2x6, sitting on 2x10 joist and 2x8 sill plate.
     
  4. Jan 11, 2018 #4

    Snoonyb

    Snoonyb

    Snoonyb

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    2,980
    Likes Received:
    515
    Basically, all you're asking is to support the structure while you replace the damaged members.

    Houses are constructed as a floor system to the perimeters of the foundation, and on top of the floor platform the walls are stood, so using jacks and a header it is common to support and slightly lift the whole floor platform from the basement.
     
  5. Jan 11, 2018 #5

    bud16415

    bud16415

    bud16415

    Fixer Upper Staff Member Admin Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    4,691
    Likes Received:
    1,616
    First off welcome to the forum I read your post this morning but didn’t feel I have the expertise or enough details yet to answer you. I had hoped that some of the more senior framing guys would off some starting directions in searching out the information you would need to supply us to be of help.

    I think you did a great job of explaining yourself and your problem.

    Lifting has to be done by pushing up on the studs and holding a section of studs up because the bottom plate is shot along with the sub floor. You don’t need much lift beyond what it has dropped from the rot.

    Do you think the bottoms of the studs are bad also? Will you need to trim the studs and do a double bottom plate? Is there damage to walls and ceilings now because they have dropped due to rot?

    From what I can see it is going to be imposable to avoid not building a temp wall section in the basement in from the wall and then removing the ceiling around the perimeter say 18” first floor and then a inside supporting wall section up to the joists. Then chop the studs off and clear out all the bad wood and replace it. Doing maybe 10’ at a time.

    The only other process would be ripping the inside drywall off up a couple feet and screwing a ledger to all the studs and then poking two holes thru the wall for a beam under the ledger blocks inside to support the beams and jacks outside then do it 10’ at a time.

    Once again I’m not a pro or a contractor and you have one tough situation to deal with. Maybe some others will drop in and offer advice. I didn’t understand the wedge idea and I don’t think that is an option for the reasons you mentioned.
     
  6. Jan 11, 2018 #6

    Wuzzat?

    Wuzzat?

    Wuzzat?

    Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    2,471
    Likes Received:
    175
    Revision 1:
    The wedge replaces a section of the rotted sill, and it's now 6" or 8" long. The tip should maybe be bullet-shaped vs. wedge-shaped, and a lubricant wouldn't hurt.
    You'll need to clamp 1x6 strips to the stud to keep this custom insert from going in crooked. The strips make a passageway that forces the insert to stay at right angles to the sill while being hammered.

    With your second question, IDK.
    This problem is about as messy as it gets. I'd post drawings of the three different views
    https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-draw-elevation-and-sections-of-a-plan-in-engineering-drawing
    as you imagine them, or more photos.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  7. Jan 11, 2018 #7

    92RSLT1

    92RSLT1

    92RSLT1

    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Some of the studs are likely bad at the bottom. My first order of business was to take the siding off and a few sheets of the osb off and get a good look from the outside. Its very likely going to need a double bottom plate. In one spot I can reach my hand through where the bottom wall plate used to be and reach into the basement.

    As far as the inside goes, all the ceiling are intact and the walls have not cracked yet, but the tape seams in the corner have pulled apart indicating there has been some settling from the rot.

    The wall I included a picture of runs parallel with the joist, so I'm not certain on this but I believe its sitting on a double rim joist, which is sitting on the sill, which is on the block foundation. The inner rim joist appears to be ok from the inside anyway, so its possible it might be OK. The outside rim will very likely need to be replaced, and the sill should be ok, since it was treated and appears to have been far enough away from the rot.
     
  8. Jan 11, 2018 #8

    bud16415

    bud16415

    bud16415

    Fixer Upper Staff Member Admin Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    4,691
    Likes Received:
    1,616
    I think we are on the same page at least.

    If two sides of the house are not load bearing they will be the simpler two but will still have a lot of weight on them.

    Taking the siding and sheathing off a couple feet up is a must as one of the last steps is going to be getting new house wrap under the old and down low enough and new proper flashing. So you will get a good look. I would say you have to open say no more than 12’ at a time and repair 8’ as that’s the logical length of the materials. You can take the siding off all the way around and fold up the wrap. But because with one guy doing it and the length of the job I would keep the open area to a minimum. Plus the sheathing adds stability so remove that as you work around.

    On the inside the hard wood floor is a problem as the sub floor is under it. What is your plan there? Is it T&G or a floating product?

    I can see the method of attaching a ledger inside or out as working and if how high up you want to remove things and window sills and such getting in the way the ledger could be a length of angle iron drilled to be screwed to the studs. Then maybe some C channel or I beam for the two beams to jack on. Inside on the bearing points I would put two lally columns with support plates in the basement below the blocking points above and move them around as you go.

    As to the hard wood you could measure in some amount all that way around the house and cut the flooring very accurately and then re-floor that area to look like a trim feature maybe.

    These are just ideas. I know how sometimes just talking thru something clears things up sometimes.
     
  9. Jan 11, 2018 #9

    Snoonyb

    Snoonyb

    Snoonyb

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    2,980
    Likes Received:
    515
    All exterior walls are considered load bearing.

    If the walls needing repair, fall over the floor platform where the walls are parallel with the floor joist, you then block between the floor joist and the rim joist, beam post and jack from the basement floor.

    You can then support succeeding floor levels using the same method.
     
  10. Jan 12, 2018 #10

    bud16415

    bud16415

    bud16415

    Fixer Upper Staff Member Admin Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    4,691
    Likes Received:
    1,616
    I’m not a pro as I believe the OP isn’t as well. I could use some clarification on the quoted part of your reply.

    All walls fall over the floor platform am I wrong?

    Ok half his bad exterior walls are parallel to the floor joists I assume?

    Block between floor joists and rim joists. Is this blocking attached or just sitting in there?

    Beam post. What is a beam post?

    Jack from basement floor. OK do I worry about cracking floor lifting a side of a house this way.

    Any pictures of doing this?

    When the house is up in the air like this the OP can then cut the bottom of all his studs off and then slip in sub flooring and a double bottom plate?
     
  11. Jan 12, 2018 #11

    Snoonyb

    Snoonyb

    Snoonyb

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    2,980
    Likes Received:
    515
    Like a steer.

    Correct.

    We don't know the dimensions, but there is a likelihood that there is damage elsewhere.

    Screwed or nailed to both.

    Should have read beam, post and the process was described earlier.

    The idea is not to lift the house, just unload the walls and avoid the potential damage which can occur when lifting, so that they can be repaired.

    Just house moving experience.

    He should be able too.
     

Share This Page