someone moved my beams!!

[Eliz2008]

First time here and am working on little knowledge. Our house is 9 years old. We have a big open basement and are slowly starting to finish it. Recently we had dri core flooring installed and the exterior walls framed up. During the installation of the flooring, the fellows moved the support posts - took them down and moved them andn then put them back. In one case they had taken one down and left it down for a day or two. Didn't think much of it at the time, but during Christmas cleaning the other day, our house has definelty shifted. I've noted slight separation in molding, trims and floors where one type (ceramic) meets another (wood) and trims and mislaigmemtnof doors - especeilly near the staircase - big crack on the driwall/paint and a separation between a stair post and the floor of about 1/4". In somecase it seems off by 1/4" or more. The support posts are back in place. However, there were two support posts near the stairs leading downstairs. The guys framed up around the stairs to make ready for walls and reinstalled the support posts between the 2 x 4 framing around the stairs. The posts are now about a foot from there original locations.
Does any of this make sense? I can get pictures to post if anyone is iterest in advising. Question is if we put the posts back in there origal position, could we rememedy some of the separaion we are seeing? Is is accetpable to have suppport posts sandwiched bewteen 2 x 4 framing or is it best to have it on the cement slab? Is it safe to temporarily move a support posts without installing another temporatry support?

 

[ToolGuy]

I see posts sandwiched in 2x4 framed walls all the time, even though they protrude a bit. Also, I could never imagine moving a supporting member without teporary support. And finally, there are footings beneath those posts, so they shouldn't be moved without a new footing to support them.

Others here know more about these matters, but these are just some of my observations. The other guys will be along in short time, I'm sure with a lot to say, but photos are always helpful. I hear they're worth 1000 words.

 

[Eliz2008]

Thanks! When I get the pics, should I post them in this thread or put up a new one? (new here)

 

[ToolGuy]

In this thread is fine. Also, you may want to put them on PhotoBucket.com or similar photo sharing site, as uploading attachments to this site is a little tricky.

 

[inspectorD]

So they put down the drycore and never mentioned REMOVING support posts.
Why didn't they cut around them like the rest of us.
Did they install the new wall and posts on the new drycore ? These are not structural panels . Sounds like the damage has already been done. Did they cut the posts to fit back in after the house sagged a bit. You need to get those folks back to answer some of these questions and figure out what you can all agree upon. Yelling and calling them names is no good...it only attracts lawyers.
Get us some pictures and we will ALL help as much as possible, thats the kind of folks we are.

 

[ToolGuy]

...Yelling and calling them names is no good...

Very worth mentioning. I know in these situations it's hard to keep things civil, but if you think it through rationally, they'll be more inclined to correct matters as much as possible if they feel you're working with them.

On the other hand, they have to know they're in deep doo doo if they jerk you around. There is no way they did that and didn't know they were causing damage, so I wouldn't count on their integrity.

Speak softly, but carry a big stick.

 

[Eliz2008]

Tool guy, the posts are the metal adjutable support posts and they did put them back, except for the posts that they sandwiched between the 2 x 4's. Those posts are not quite where they were oringally. So there's nothing to be done about the "offness" of the house now. Since I don't know where the posts were originally adjusted, we would only be guessing at putting them back at the same height as before.

 

[Eliz2008]

I posted some picutres in my gallery of the results of the beams being moved, Any thing I can do to rectify it? Damage done? Any worreis about safety? All comments appreciated.

 

[glennjanie]

Hello Eliz:
I would want to move the trim and make it line up. The posts all appear to be still supporting the beams. Use fiberglass tape on the drywall and re-mud and finish it. The 4 X 4 above the beam obviously is not suppoting any weight, we can put trim around it or caulk the crack. I would lean more to the trim because of the problem of matching the caulk to the surfaces there. I don't see any major problems here.
Glenn

 

[Eliz2008]

Thanks glennjanie. I was realy cocnred abut the safety. I guess as long as we don't move beams again we're safe. When we finish the basements I'll make sure that they are not moved again!!!
So the post within the 2 x 4 is okay?

 

[inspectorD]

I have to disagree with Glenn on this one. First ,What does the local town building inspector say? They will give you the ok as long as you got a permit, you know for your saftey. Then you can sleep at night. I see they moved a post off the flush carrying beam and installed the wall underneath, This will hold some of the weight , but when the wood shrinks down you will end up with cracking and settlement again. This is why we usually leave things like concrete filled metal posts where they are .

I also see they installed the walls on the drycore, like I said before, these are not structural, they are for keeping an air space under the floor , that is something I would change.
Good luck with this and let us know what happens.

 

[Eliz2008]

Thanks Inspector D. DriCore folks told us that we could put walls on top of the dricore, but I'm sure they did not mean load bearing walls.
I'm going to have the posts in the 2 x 4 moved back (with temporay supports put in place first.
Any other suggestions or tips?
I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[inspectorD]

It also looks as though the metal posts are sitting on the 2x4 bottom plate which is on top of the drycore. Those posts need to go to the concrete floor and be directly fastened to the beam. The old post locations would have had a peir built in under the concrete floor to distribute the weight above according to the house engineering. Moving those posts creates loads in the wrong areas and since you installed the drycore....you will not be able to see any cracks which start to form.
I am not trying to alarm you, but this is just the types of things I can see causing issues down the road. Foundation beams and bearing walls are the starting point of your home. When we start to modify them without understanding the engineering which was involved in the beginning, you end up with problems . That is why we have Building inspectors to help out when we get ideas of updating our houses. Having been a builder for 25 years I understand not wanting one coming around, and having to pay the man. But when you don't get them involved, you can end up with serious problems.

Enginerring of bearing points is a big issue with me. These points are not arbitrary or just there to hold up your house for everyday living.
These areas of the home only need one weak link in a major storm or catastophy once in your life. Then they fail, and you are stuck under the house when you needed it to hold together. We have all seen that one home in the tornado still standing....we just cannot figure out why. Well I know why, it is because it was built to withstand that issue, was not modified at all. and had a good keeper upper to stay healthy.
Just like everything else in life, only the strong survive.

Getting off my soapbox now.
Hope that helps, if not I'm sure I will hear it......