Terminating wires

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bud16415

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The 50a current rating wouldn't be a problem if fed by a properly sized breaker. I guess the only problem might be whether it's configured as a branch circuit or sub panel.
99% of 240v hot tubs have a regular breaker in the panel rated at 50-60a. that feeds a hot tub sub panel that contains a disconnect via a 50-60a GFCI that by code has to be near the tub. This is where the home owner kills the tub to do work on it like draining and refilling etc. It is also there for safety so the GFCI can be tested monthly and if the tub trips it or something goes wrong like a hose breaks you can quickly shut it off. It is not allowed to put the GFCI into the main panel and wire it all the way out to the tub. even though people do it.



If someone removed the tub and saw the GFCI sub panel as a place to pull off 120v for some outlets all the overload protection backing it up would be too high. This I believe is what the OP thinks was done.



To the OP if you someday want a hot tub it would be great to have the GFCI sub panel already in place, but you don’t want it under the deck where it is hard to get at and not to code anyway. Depending on where the main panel is and what’s involved you could use this box as a junction box for a new tub and run out of it to a new one above the deck and at least 5’ from the tub.
 

swimmer_spe

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99% of 240v hot tubs have a regular breaker in the panel rated at 50-60a. that feeds a hot tub sub panel that contains a disconnect via a 50-60a GFCI that by code has to be near the tub. This is where the home owner kills the tub to do work on it like draining and refilling etc. It is also there for safety so the GFCI can be tested monthly and if the tub trips it or something goes wrong like a hose breaks you can quickly shut it off. It is not allowed to put the GFCI into the main panel and wire it all the way out to the tub. even though people do it.



If someone removed the tub and saw the GFCI sub panel as a place to pull off 120v for some outlets all the overload protection backing it up would be too high. This I believe is what the OP thinks was done.



To the OP if you someday want a hot tub it would be great to have the GFCI sub panel already in place, but you don’t want it under the deck where it is hard to get at and not to code anyway. Depending on where the main panel is and what’s involved you could use this box as a junction box for a new tub and run out of it to a new one above the deck and at least 5’ from the tub.
I know it shouldn't be under the deck. I have no idea why it was under the deck. It looks more like they pulled a feed from a junction box before it.

Short answer is I want to make the circuit safe to put power to to figure out whether it feeds other things and then go from that.
 

bud16415

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Then you won’t know what’s in it till you open it up. It could have been already striped out and they are just using it as a junction point. Wait till it dries out cut the power to it and see if your outside outlets still have power. Then open it up and have a look.
 

swimmer_spe

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Then you won’t know what’s in it till you open it up. It could have been already striped out and they are just using it as a junction point. Wait till it dries out cut the power to it and see if your outside outlets still have power. Then open it up and have a look.

Power is already cut and has been since we moved in almost 2 years ago.
 

swimmer_spe

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Do your outside outlets work?
Some do, some don't. The problem is that the end of the wire from the hot tub disconnect is just lying on the ground, so, before I turn the power back on, I need to make that safe.
 

swimmer_spe

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This house had a hot tub outside.There is a dedicated breaker for it. Below the deck is the wires and a disconnect box. I think that some outdoor plugs are also off this run.

Without an electician doing it, what is a safe way to terminate the wires such that it is safe to turn on the power to the run and that the water/snow/ice does not corrode it?

And this, not being in the OP, was helpful?

It helps, when you tell the whole story.

It was.....
 

bud16415

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Yes that is what I asked or explained in my first post. That should have never been left that way. once inside the box and behind the safety panel all those wires need to be removed from the screws and that whole cable taken off and then the hole capped.



With the breaker off I would still do a voltage test where the power comes in.



I had a friend that sold his house and took his hot tub with him and left the wires hanging like yours. I couldn’t leave it like that so I went into the main panel and took the wires off the breaker and taped them up and left them inside the main panel. I wrote a note card explaining what I did and the breaker was for a tub if the new owner ever wanted one. And taped it inside the door to the panel.
 

Snoonyb

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It was.....

Where does your OP say, "laying on the ground"?

"This house had a hot tub outside.There is a dedicated breaker for it. Below the deck is the wires and a disconnect box. I think that some outdoor plugs are also off this run.

Without an electician doing it, what is a safe way to terminate the wires such that it is safe to turn on the power to the run and that the water/snow/ice does not corrode it?"
 

swimmer_spe

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Yes that is what I asked or explained in my first post. That should have never been left that way. once inside the box and behind the safety panel all those wires need to be removed from the screws and that whole cable taken off and then the hole capped.



With the breaker off I would still do a voltage test where the power comes in.



I had a friend that sold his house and took his hot tub with him and left the wires hanging like yours. I couldn’t leave it like that so I went into the main panel and took the wires off the breaker and taped them up and left them inside the main panel. I wrote a note card explaining what I did and the breaker was for a tub if the new owner ever wanted one. And taped it inside the door to the panel.

My goal would be to remove it, like you said, but still have power for the outside plugs that may be powered by it. Since I don't own a megger, I plan to make the wires safe and then use a plug tester. Good thing is, there is also an outside light that is on the same circuit as the those plugs. Under the deck is a mess of cables and wires and I am trying to sort it all out without having to rip the deck up to get at everything.
 

swimmer_spe

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Where does your OP say, "laying on the ground"?

"This house had a hot tub outside.There is a dedicated breaker for it. Below the deck is the wires and a disconnect box. I think that some outdoor plugs are also off this run.

Without an electician doing it, what is a safe way to terminate the wires such that it is safe to turn on the power to the run and that the water/snow/ice does not corrode it?"

Would it be any better if none of it was laying on the ground? Part of my plan once I get under there is to get the boxes off the ground and secured somehow to the underside of the deck. Before I go there just to do that I want to fix it so it is safe to energize it.
 

Jeff Handy

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You seem completely unsuited to attempt any work on this mysterious mess of wires etc.
You should not do any of this yourself, sorry, it is beyond your ability to safely work on it.
The existing work also sounds like it was installed by some amateur fool like uncle Joe or cousin Moe, so who knows what some self-taught chucklehead did to wire up the hot tub and outdoor outlets years ago?
Hire a pro, or expect to be electrocuted.
 

afjes_2016

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You seem completely unsuited to attempt any work on this mysterious mess of wires etc.
You should not do any of this yourself, sorry, it is beyond your ability to safely work on it...

Jeff, I'm sorry but I find your reply to be a bit rude and boarder line condescending.

We are here to assist OPs with their DIY electrical work and even attempts at it. If we feel that what they want to do or have to do may be over their heads we can be a bit more polite and considerate when we advise them to seek the assistance of a licensed electrician. We don't want DIYers to read replies like this and hesitate in asking their questions with fear of being "banged" for their lack of knowledge. Sure there are times when we need to stress to an OP that maybe what they are attempting could be over their heads but I think most of the time we are more easy and polite in telling them. At least I try to be.
 

swimmer_spe

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You seem completely unsuited to attempt any work on this mysterious mess of wires etc.
You should not do any of this yourself, sorry, it is beyond your ability to safely work on it.
The existing work also sounds like it was installed by some amateur fool like uncle Joe or cousin Moe, so who knows what some self-taught chucklehead did to wire up the hot tub and outdoor outlets years ago?
Hire a pro, or expect to be electrocuted.

There has been a lot of things I have had to make right around here. Some of it has been electrical. If it is as simple as get a juntion box and put the wire in, sealing it in properly and then put marettes on the ends, it is well within my abilities.
 

Jeff Handy

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You are right that I was too blunt with my assessment.
Sorry about that.
I think by being direct, I was trying to make my point too quickly or firmly.
And I was trying to scare the OP but in a good way, to discourage and also protect.
But I stand by my warning that in this instance, the posts so far are laying out a situation that needs a pro or more experienced amateur to assess it.
Sorry for being too grouchy, I have good and bad days.
 

Jeff Handy

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The outdoor outlets that are not working might be tied to another gfci outlet inside the house or garage.
Or on the deck, front porch, garage, etc.
Check the TEST/RESET buttons everywhere.
An outlet that does not have those buttons can still be fed and controlled by another one upstream that does have them.
 

swimmer_spe

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The outdoor outlets that are not working might be tied to another gfci outlet inside the house or garage.
Or on the deck, front porch, garage, etc.
Check the TEST/RESET buttons everywhere.
An outlet that does not have those buttons can still be fed and controlled by another one upstream that does have them.

Already done that. If they don't work once I energize this circuit, my next step is to rip up the deck boards to find the route as the wires are not buried, just under the deck.
 

Jeff Handy

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Just a long shot, but if the dead outlets are all gfci, they might have just died from the gfci chip blowing out.
Modern gfci outlets do that.
The older type just stayed live, with gfci protection gone, which of course was dangerous.
The modern ones also have a much stiffer RESET button, needs very firm press to reset.
There might still be live conductors attached to them, which you could test with a non contact voltage tester.

There could also be a wall toggle switch that you never use, in the garage, mud room, etc, that controls all these dead outlets.

Very common issue, people find a forgotten wall switch behind a shelf, or amongst a forest of other switches,
 

swimmer_spe

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Just a long shot, but if the dead outlets are all gfci, they might have just died from the gfci chip blowing out.
Modern gfci outlets do that.
The older type just stayed live, with gfci protection gone, which of course was dangerous.
The modern ones also have a much stiffer RESET button, needs very firm press to reset.
There might still be live conductors attached to them, which you could test with a non contact voltage tester.

Already tested with a non contact voltage tester. It read no power.

Short of getting a megger, I have done all I can with the circuit dead. I feel that once the wires are made safe, if I throw the breaker, those should have power. If it does, I now have something to go on and now know what my next steps are.
 
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