Terminating wires

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Hamberg

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Have we established the sub panel/junction/disconnect is under the deck? By most standards, doesn't this constitute inaccessible? (ART 110 NEC).

Probably shouldn't be looking to fix this thing but rather bring it up to current standards!?
 

bud16415

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Have we established the sub panel/junction/disconnect is under the deck? By most standards, doesn't this constitute inaccessible? (ART 110 NEC).

Probably shouldn't be looking to fix this thing but rather bring it up to current standards!?
I have mentioned this at least 3 times now.
 

Eddie_T

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Swimmer_spe
I will chime in with the misconception that working with 240v is more dangerous than working with 120v.
One thing you must remember, it takes less than an amp to kill you and 120v and 240v have amps sufficient to kill you.

Here is a quote from an article:



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Good points! And it makes no difference what the breaker size is. When it come to electrocution a 50A breaker is no more risky than a smaller one. The only way to get a 240V shock is to be caught between L1 and L2 otherwise it's 120V to neutral or ground. Keeping one hand in a pocket is a good idea because in these days of ugly Chinese rubber soled shoes it's harder to get a single handed shock.
 

bud16415

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We as a forum should not be giving any information out on doing home electrical work with the power live. The only situation where something is done on an energized circuit should be in taking some kind of measurement of the voltage or current in the system. In those cases ether a non contact device or a probing device with proper insulated test leads and proper instructions is what should be done.



There is no safe level of exposing the human body directly to home voltages.



Things like shoes and gloves, the material a ladder is made from and how many hands you keep in pockets can be wise to do in the event of something out of your control happening, but it should not be planned on being needed.



Power should be off unless you are testing it and it should be tested to be sure it is off. In industrial settings they follow LOTO lock out tag out to insure another level of protection. It is really not a bad idea at home if you are working with others.



As a forum I don’t want to read anything coming close to hot work.
 

Snoonyb

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Hot work, which I'm not an advocate of, is on occasion a necessity.

I was doing some work on a garage and needed to secure the 20A feed, and found the ZINSCO breaker, was a flow-thru device, so after removing the conductor from the breaker and finishing the repairs, and using a channel-locks and then a vice grip, I was unable to dislodge the breaker, so I inserted a flat blade Stanley, dislodging the breaker AND shortening the Stanley.

Which I sharpened and used as an awl, center punch, nail set & alignment tool.
 

Jeff Handy

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Hot work, which I'm not an advocate of, is on occasion a necessity.

I was doing some work on a garage and needed to secure the 20A feed, and found the ZINSCO breaker, was a flow-thru device, so after removing the conductor from the breaker and finishing the repairs, and using a channel-locks and then a vice grip, I was unable to dislodge the breaker, so I inserted a flat blade Stanley, dislodging the breaker AND shortening the Stanley.

Which I sharpened and used as an awl, center punch, nail set & alignment tool.
Turn off main power, screwdriver and you would both have survived.
 

bud16415

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I’m sure many of us myself included have done some hot work in the past and most likely it wasn’t one of the smarter things in our past.



My point is a home improvement forum with all the unknowns of dealing with people we don’t know anything of their abilities it is a must we provide information that contains no hint of suggestion of doing it.



It is bad enough people get confused and wire dead shorts into things and find out tripping the breaker as soon as they restore power.



There is danger in just about everything with home repairs but we need to be very careful in giving advice to try and explain the safest way to do something.
 

swimmer_spe

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I will chime in with the misconception that working with 240v is more dangerous than working with 120v.
One thing you must remember, it takes less than an amp to kill you and 120v and 240v have amps sufficient to kill you.

Here is a quote from an article:

I stated that a few pages back.
It is more mental that 110V 15A circuits seem safer to handle than 220V 50A circuits. I had to move my plug for my dryer and I did the same thing as I would do with any electrical circuit, but the fact that it was 220V made ,e nervous.

Have we established the sub panel/junction/disconnect is under the deck? By most standards, doesn't this constitute inaccessible? (ART 110 NEC).

Probably shouldn't be looking to fix this thing but rather bring it up to current standards!?

Well, the goal is first to see if anything else is on this line. Once I have determined that, I will then bring it to code, which would include moving that panel to a more accessible spot. I have plenty of cable to do that. My concern is those wires out of the panel.

We as a forum should not be giving any information out on doing home electrical work with the power live. The only situation where something is done on an energized circuit should be in taking some kind of measurement of the voltage or current in the system. In those cases ether a non contact device or a probing device with proper insulated test leads and proper instructions is what should be done.



There is no safe level of exposing the human body directly to home voltages.



Things like shoes and gloves, the material a ladder is made from and how many hands you keep in pockets can be wise to do in the event of something out of your control happening, but it should not be planned on being needed.



Power should be off unless you are testing it and it should be tested to be sure it is off. In industrial settings they follow LOTO lock out tag out to insure another level of protection. It is really not a bad idea at home if you are working with others.



As a forum I don’t want to read anything coming close to hot work.

I am fully aware of LOTO, and short of throwing an actual lock on the breaker, I try to follow my training in it. I have enough meters to test that the line is dead. From the non contact ones to multimeters to the plug in ones to test whether the outlet is wired right, I can and know how to safely test it. I also know that if I throw the breaker and it pops, to make sure it is off, and leave it off and call a professional.

Good point but I don't think anyone was advocating hot work.

The only hot work for me would be after making the bare wires safe, to turn the breaker on to see whether that breaker powers the outlets that are out. After that, the goal is to get it to code and then use the circuit.
 

afjes_2016

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I had to move my plug for my dryer and I did the same thing as I would do with any electrical circuit, but the fact that it was 220V made ,e nervous.
One very important thing they taught us early in electrical class besides other important factors is "Do not fear electricity - but you must RESPECT electricity" Fearing something sometimes tends to make you a bit sloppy. Respect it and understand it. The second most important thing is "Know your limitations".

.
 

swimmer_spe

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One very important thing they taught us early in electrical class besides other important factors is "Do not fear electricity - but you must RESPECT electricity" Fearing something sometimes tends to make you a bit sloppy. Respect it and understand it. The second most important thing is "Know your limitations".

.

One place I worked, we had a breaker for 4160V. I never had to throw it, but it could have been somethign I would need to do. Not good when the arc flash rating is 99 feet. I respect electricity.
 

bud16415

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One place I worked, we had a breaker for 4160V. I never had to throw it, but it could have been somethign I would need to do. Not good when the arc flash rating is 99 feet. I respect electricity.
During my apprenticeship I had an electrical rotation assignment and I was taken out at 19 years old and with a few semesters of DC/AC circuits under my belt is all to a 400 ton mechanical punch press and the electrician I was working with opened the 550v disconnect pulled the fuses out and removed the feed. So I’m left with a 2 story tall machine that is dead and told to strip everything electrical off the machine except the main motor and junk it.



That was easy enough opening panels and seeing all kinds of old dirty relays and timers and who knows what with switches and pushbuttons labeled this and that and a mile of conduit full of numbered wires. Cleaned it down to the bones and dumped everything into scrap bins.



Took most of a week working alone and when done he comes back and says looks great and hands me a tablet and a pen and said now we are going to wire it and bring it all up to date. I said what’s the paper for and he said to design the circuits you want to make it work. I though what the hell I should have paid attention taking it apart. He said bring your layout to Charley when you are done. Charley was the head guy in the building for this crew. So I take another week drawing a circuit and take it to Charley and he looks at it for about a minute and says pretty good you need to move this to this and he marks red on my ten pages of lines. I thought how could this guy look at that so fast and know anything. He takes me to this other area and said everything you need is in here wire it back up and Norm the first guy will put the power back for you.



So I spend the next month rebuilding this thing from scratch and Norm would check in once in a while and show me some trick to bending conduit etc. I get it done and he comes down with Charley and they look it over and Charley tells him hook it up.



Long story to get to this point when Norm gets done putting 550 to it and new fuses in he walks around the press frame puts a finger in his ear and closes his eyes and faces away and pulls the handle to on. I thought what a clown only later to find out he did that on every switch he threw as he once had one blow him over.



To conclude I don’t know who was more amazed me or Norm that the machine worked even though I never let on I had any doubts. Charley never asked or said a word if it worked or not that I knew of.



I went on for four more years of apprenticeship with about 10 other different assignments and when I graduated the very first guy to offer me a job was Charley. I took my second offer as I was more interested in tool and die making at that point. But to this day I turn my face away from machine disconnects and plug my ear.



The really strange thing was before I retired there were ever changing rules around OSHA. I designed a machine and had my electrical crew wire it and when it came time to power it up first time my electrician leaves and comes back with his arc fault suit onface shield chest protection and heavy rubber gloves. I asked him what was up with that and he said new rules. I was amazed and asked if the operator needs all the gear to power his machine on? He said nope just us electricians.
 

Eddie_T

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We had one girl in a DC machines class. In the machine lab all the switches were open knife switches. She opened one slowly and drew a long arc. We never saw her again, I suspect she changed her major.
 
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