When the only tool you have is a hammer then every problem looks like a nail.
Tesla Achilles Heel
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Fortunately we have lots of tools and eventually use them all...
For my money 90% of the posts in the general chit chat forum could be closed. I don't come here for the politics. Unfortunately, my preferred method of scanning House Repair Talk for new posts is to use the "What's New" button so all active posts are brought to the top.
You make a good point. I do the same thing it is the easiest way on a small forum like this where we like to read all new home repair related posts to see what is new.
The Chit Chat forum was started so the guys that wanted to just BS about the weather or the latest fishing trip they went on could post about it. It was a place to form friendships between like minded home improvement type people. All this political stuff is not building friendships and in turn spilling over into every other thread. If my toilet is plugged and I don’t know what to do I really don’t care if a Rep or a Dem or Dr. Fauci comes on and offers me help.
There are a million venues where all people want to talk about are the problems of the world. I just signed up for Truth Social a month ago and I haven’t answered one question about paint or drywall or plumbing yet. If you want to explain to the masses your thoughts on politics that’s a much better venue than here.
So in effect what Sparky617 is saying is he comes here with an interest in home improvement and helping people or at least to talk with others or read what others are thinking about the topic of say EVs only to have wasted his time reading something off topic.
That worries me some and what worries me even more is someone surfs in here thinking of joining and asking a question and they read a bunch of stuff political and decide to find a different forum to ask their question. For the most part people are sick of all this politics that is our lives now and can get it from a 100 directions 24-7 and it might be nice to have a place with a simple theme of DIY and getting a job done they otherwise couldn’t afford or just taking a break from all the rest of this crap while they are here.
Again I’m not saying all the rest is not important, just that this is not the place for it.
I get that something like a thread about EVs in a chit chat forum when gas prices are topping 5 bucks might be drawn into the cultural issues of our time. If we can keep it dealing with facts I’m fine. I see it getting personal and way removed from facts there is a problem.
I know there are people building their own EVs I had an old friend that made and drove one to work starting in the 60s thru 80s. I would rather read about someone doing that at this site than what I’m seeing it turn into over and over.
I'm, "generally", of a similar mind-set, and the overall point of the post, was, that these blanket decisions to insult the fossil fuel industry, that in turn created a wariness, for them to just blankly respond to a demand, when their eventuality may be curtailed by a political "whim & fancy".
To me, It's the distinct difference between a businessman's approach, and politicians, not thinking it thru, approach.
There is a "evolutionary" move to electrification, and "eventually", we will get there, so let the process evolve, calmly, like a businessman approach, to exposing the markets to a new product, and while we are at it, how about some recycling, which for the most part, doesn't presently exist.
Another person who doesn't quite understand Freedom of Speech...
I fully understand Free Speech. This is a home improvement forum and not what I come here for. And as Bud pointed out in his follow up it may very well turn off people coming here for good home improvement information. Most of the political discussions here are pretty lame, coming from either the right or the left. They have the appropriate talking points down but are amazingly free of real information. YMMV.
A big problem is we don't have the refinery capacity needed to convert crude into gasoline, diesel, and jet fuel. And given the political atmosphere no company is going to invest the hundreds of millions and years required to build new capacity when the governments in the USA, Europe and elsewhere have made it clear that they want to get us off of hydrocarbons. That Keystone XL was shut down on day one of this administration after being greenlighted by the previous sent a big signal that was received loud and clear by the oil and gas industry. To change that trajectory would require bi-partisan support on a scale that isn't possible in the USA today. It would certainly require leadership we haven't seen in the last 14 years.
EVs are going to have some growth pains, and for many they are going to be extremely challenging to use, especially those who park on the street or live in an apartment. Given that the big three have thrown so much of their future to pick-ups and SUVs and away from smaller more efficient autos electrification is probably the only path forward long term. With gas at or over $5 a gallon I don't see a mad rush for new lifestyle pickups and Suburbans in our future. For me, I have a 23 year old F-150 I'll continue to use until it isn't economical to fix. It isn't a daily driver and a tank of gas in it usually lasts for several months. I don't see replacing our Ford Edge or Subaru Forester any time soon as both are fairly low mileage and largely trouble free. They both are paid for, so even at $5 / gallon for gas I can do a lot of miles before I approach a car payment in gas. If I were to buy a new car I would strongly consider either a hybrid or an EV. Likely an EV. You can rant all you want on this forum, it isn't going to change the path the auto companies and the government are staking out.
Unfortunately we won't have a real discussion about how to attain a "carbon free future" that provides real solutions. Wind and solar can provide a large portion of the power but they can't provide the base load for calm or cloudy days. To get there would require so much battery backup we don't have the capacity to build. Modular nuclear power plants could provide this, but good luck getting one approved. Rolls Royce is building 60 of them for the UK. These will be essentially built in a factory with a standard design and interchangeable parts unlike the bespoke plants built in the 1960s and 1970s with numerous design changes along the way.
Here's a piece on the refinery issue. It is a conservative leaning site, but the news aspect is real.
There may never be another new refinery built in America – HotAir
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Actually, many venues, such as The Hill, have closed their comments section! Or you have to pay now to be on there and get censored. Too much truth was getting out there opposing their published lies. And many others delete any messages with truth.
There's still nothing at Truth Social dot com... and I'm not putting the app on my cell phone... however, I'm sure they discuss 'painting' your face black in there... that's a big political drawback no-no now...
I'm thinking of electrifying a cute little Hedstrom foot scooter I pulled out of somebody's discards... prolly because my buddy has an old Schwinn electric scooter... with a basket on the front it's handy to buzz a few blocks to the grocery store... most don't even mind old people riding them through the store doing shopping... saw an electric motor with chain sprocket for $33... pair of 12 volt scooter batteries for $34... etc... sorry to wander off into DIYer... LOL !
https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/...age-80s-Hedstrom-Scooter-Old-School-Spoke.jpg
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Somehow we magically had the capacity to do all that two years ago... even $1.25/gallon gasoline around here if you looked hard for it... plus we were a net ENERGY EXPORTER! Not begging our enemies for oil like now...
Gov. NitWhitmer of Michigan is still trying to shut down the pipelines that supply oil for gasoline for southern Michigan and northern Ohio... despite oil companies offering $Billions to make it safer... that would close our refineries here and kill thousands more great paying jobs... bump gasoline to their desired $10+/gallon...
Hard to avoid when Govt.-induced inflation is bumping the price of everything up 50-500% now! Even things that haven't jumped much yet will have to as fuel/transportation/farming/manufacturing/supplier costs triple-quadruple... and soon more...
Spicoli43
Well-Known Member
Yes. Everything is politics, it's unavoidable. This thread shouldn't be closed to political discussion because it has to do with a GIANT divide in this country and it is a Red / Blue arguing point to a T. It just happens that the Blue side is wrong on everything. That isn't debatable, it's Scientific fact.
There was a refinery fire that took a major refinery out in Philly. It was permanently closed. They've also converted refineries to bio-fuels to meet government mandates. Many small refineries closed due to the bio fuel requirements. Demand went way down with COVID and then came roaring back. There are a multitude of problems some lay at the feet of the current admin, some going back longer. The point is, we don't have enough capacity today and we're unlikely to get more capacity because the industry isn't going to spend the money when the government has made it abundantly clear they want to drive them out of business. It isn't a giant conspiracy on the part of the oil companies, it is a rational decision based on the changing regulatory environment.
Flyover
Trying not to screw things up worse
@bud16415 I apologize, probably my fault. In my defense I apologized in advance! 
I got distracted by something off-topic and asked a question about it; I was expecting a quick one-sentence or one-paragraph explanation but apparently while I was at work it turned into a full page pile-on. I still don't think I got my question answered other than "Where have you been?" (not consuming journalism or any social media platforms, that's where) but please do feel free to delete all the off-topic stuff.
Anyway, I think I am starting to agree with that guy in the video, who was wearing the "The Future is Eclectic" t-shirt, at least based on my current understanding of things: hybrids are maybe a good idea right now, we will hopefully move to all-electric in the future when some of today's EVs serve as the R&D for scaling up. (Remember, EVs have been around for well over a hundred years.)
I got distracted by something off-topic and asked a question about it; I was expecting a quick one-sentence or one-paragraph explanation but apparently while I was at work it turned into a full page pile-on. I still don't think I got my question answered other than "Where have you been?" (not consuming journalism or any social media platforms, that's where) but please do feel free to delete all the off-topic stuff.Anyway, I think I am starting to agree with that guy in the video, who was wearing the "The Future is Eclectic" t-shirt, at least based on my current understanding of things: hybrids are maybe a good idea right now, we will hopefully move to all-electric in the future when some of today's EVs serve as the R&D for scaling up. (Remember, EVs have been around for well over a hundred years.)
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Eddie_T
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Government decrees are not well accepted in a free(?) nation and tend to be political. Mainly it's because the government uses consensus science which is fake science at best. Neither side in the media (or the government) seems to have the whole truth and neither seems eager to encourage real debate. One side says the grid can handle EVs. The other side quotes a number of new nuclear power plants needed. The middle says it can be handled with careful planning which we all know won't happen because some sacrifice will be required.
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Spicoli43
Well-Known Member
I don't know if servicing EV's has been discussed... One post in the comments for the article is as follows... "If you are thinking of a Tesla, be aware that SERVICE is often VERY difficult to get. I have to wait about a MONTH for a Tesla service no matter how simple the problem. Many problems simply are not solvable by local service particularly problems involving software causing sudden braking, and the so called "Full Self Driving" problems are not even addressable at present. We owners hope this will improve VERY soon!"
As far as Tesla, lets take a "cheap one" at 50 Large... I just figured my weekly grocery trip in with my current car at a *hopefully* not ever existent $10 a gallon... I used to drive for fun, now it's 100% business, just what needs to happen and nothing more... For just the base cost of 50 Large for a Tesla, not including ANYTHING else, I can drive said shopping trips in an ICE car at $10 per gallon for 48 years, which will be well past my allowed driving time anyway.
Ok, let's cut that in half for an "Econ" EV at 25 Large... 24 Years. That would be great, except then comes in the replacement battery and the charging and the service and the parts, which would probably make it a 60 Large car at the end.
Every possible scenario I run on EV's falls flat on it's face. Even if I was a Multi Millionaire... Refer to the quote above.
The video is from Bainbridge Island, WA, close to where I grew up... People there can buy a Tesla for every day of the week, so the accuracy of the demand is just that.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy...on-you-bought-one-but-can-you-get-it-serviced
As far as Tesla, lets take a "cheap one" at 50 Large... I just figured my weekly grocery trip in with my current car at a *hopefully* not ever existent $10 a gallon... I used to drive for fun, now it's 100% business, just what needs to happen and nothing more... For just the base cost of 50 Large for a Tesla, not including ANYTHING else, I can drive said shopping trips in an ICE car at $10 per gallon for 48 years, which will be well past my allowed driving time anyway.
Ok, let's cut that in half for an "Econ" EV at 25 Large... 24 Years. That would be great, except then comes in the replacement battery and the charging and the service and the parts, which would probably make it a 60 Large car at the end.
Every possible scenario I run on EV's falls flat on it's face. Even if I was a Multi Millionaire... Refer to the quote above.
The video is from Bainbridge Island, WA, close to where I grew up... People there can buy a Tesla for every day of the week, so the accuracy of the demand is just that.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy...on-you-bought-one-but-can-you-get-it-serviced
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