We never had a green thing in the old days

Discussion in 'Green Energy and Sustenance Living' started by nealtw, Jun 7, 2012.

  1. Jun 7, 2012 #1

    nealtw

    nealtw

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    Checking out at the store, the young cashier suggested to the older
    woman,that she should bring her own grocery bags because plastic
    bags weren't good for the environment.....
    The woman apologized and explained, "We didn't have this green thing
    back in my earlier days."
    The clerk responded, "That's our problem today. Your generation did not
    care enough to save our environment for future generations."
    She was right -- our generation didn't have the green thing in its day
    Back then, we returned milk bottles, soda bottles and beer bottles to
    the store.
    The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and
    refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over.
    So they really were recycled. But we didn't have the green thing back in
    our day.
    Grocery stores bagged our groceries in brown paper bags, that we
    reusedfor numerous things, most memorable besides household
    garbage bags, was the use of brown paper bags as book covers for
    our school books.
    This was to ensure that public property, (the books provided for our use
    by the school) was not defaced by our scribblings. Then we were able to
    personalize our books.
    But too bad we didn't do the green thing back then
    We walked up stairs, because we didn't have an escalator in every store
    and office building. We walked to the grocery store and didn't climb into a
    300 horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks.
    But she was right. We didn't have the green thing in our day.
    Back then, we washed the baby's diapers because we didn't have the
    throw-away kind. We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy
    gobbling machine burning up 220 volts -- wind and solar power really
    did dry our clothes back in our early days
    Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always
    brand-new clothing.
    But that young lady is right; we didn't have the green thing back in our
    day.
    Back then, we had one TV, or radio, in the house -- not a TV in every
    room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief
    (remember them?), not a screen the size of the state of Montana .
    In the kitchen, we blended and stirred by hand because we didn't have
    electric machines to do everything for us.
    When we packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, we used wadded up
    old newspapers to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap.
    Back then, we didn't fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the
    lawn. We used a push mower that ran on human power.
    We exercised by working so we didn't need to go to a health club to run
    on treadmills that operate on electricity.
    But she's right; we didn't have the green thing back then.
    We drank from a fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or
    a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water.
    We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we
    replaced the razor blades in a razor instead of throwing away the whole
    razor just because the blade got dull.
    But she's right; we didn't have the green thing back then.
    Back then, people took thestreetcar or a bus and kids rode their bikes
    to school or walked instead of turning their moms into a 24-hour taxi
    service. We
    had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to
    power a dozen appliances.
    And we didn't need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from
    satellites 2,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest burger
    joint.
    But isn't it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we older
    folks were just because we didn't have the green thing back then?
    Please forward this on to another selfish older person who needs a
    lesson in
    conservation from a smart *** young person....
    We don't like being older in the first place, so it doesn't take much to
    piss us off.

    I just borrowed this from an email, don't know who wrote it.
     
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  2. Jun 7, 2012 #2

    oldognewtrick

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    Neal, good post. Thanks for sharing.
     
  3. Jun 7, 2012 #3

    Blue Jay

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    All I can say is AMEN:clap:
     
  4. Jun 7, 2012 #4

    tull4ever

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    Amen is right, good time to get back in the forum, there's more then just help!!! A great and fun read...
     
  5. Jul 14, 2012 #5

    exportgoods

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    I really enjoyed reading this. RIGHT ON!
     
  6. Sep 15, 2012 #6

    sgeco

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    really true, i wish to be back in those simple days. I'm lucky to experience both generation and I want my kids to experience those past. This is a really good read
     
  7. Sep 15, 2012 #7

    Gib

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    Nice commentary.

    My cousin, 40 years my senior, had an electrical code book when he started out that was smaller than an i-pad, and no thicker. My NEC code book is big enough to be a booster seat.
    In 1960 we still had 1 company in Hazleton PA that delivered milk in a horse drawn cart - the horse remembered where to stop so the "driver" would gather his order together and hop off as the cart slowed to a stop. Now I have an old milk box on the front porch just so people have a place to drop off a set of specs.

    In the early 60's in McKeesport PA, you could still get ice delivered every other day for your ice box. Now the "Frozen Water Trade" is something you find in history books - if you look hard.

    It's not the world it used to be.
    Gib
     
  8. Oct 9, 2013 #8

    gottodo1

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    Neal,
    I didn't live back in those days but good rant,, almost sounds fun (except for the lack of computers and micro electronics). I can't help but make one comment though but please don't take it personally, I just want to explain what she was trying to say but couldn't articulate respectfully. The generation from back in Those days (70 - 50 years older than I am I'd assume so 75-95) They didn't have to do the "green" thing but here's what she was actually trying to say, she just didn't have the thought process available to work through it.

    Back in "those" days, (that age group's) parents hadn't pushed everything to China, they still had a place that made brown bags in the state/country, the could send your bottles back to the plant because the plant wasn't in China.

    While the girl was right that you didn't have the "green" thing she was really trying to address, in her own disrespectful and lacking cognitive processes way, is what everyone sees. That our own country in "that" generation has put itself (and kids) out of business(work) and it's that generation that did it. A lot of young people love to apply blame to the previous generation and there is blame to be spread but they misdirect, often on recycling and thinking & designing green. There is ALOT of blame for being blatantly harmful to the environment but that's not the real problem, at least not the one they feel, it's an easy escape goat. Therefore not realizing that they don't get to the root of the problem to be able to fix it, it doesn't get fixed. If we would fix our economic model, being "green" on the things people love to harp about, would almost immediately fix itself.

    Why is it cheaper to throw away a bottle than to recycle it? Because it's not made here it's made by someone in China where the QOL isn't as high. It also costs alot to ship our recycling to China (which is what we do and the Gov subsidizes). Last I read less than 10% of all recycling work is done in the US but almost 80% of all recycled materials come from here. We've been built over the last 50-60 years into a consumer nation with a service workforce, that's where the blame really lies, with the people who worked for and supported companies that did that to our children and our environment.

    Sorry she articulated it so poorly but please forgive her, her parents obviously didn't teach her any better.
     
  9. Oct 9, 2013 #9

    bud16415

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    I never “liked” a post over a year old before but just did. The paper or plastic question always makes me laugh at the checkout like there is a correct answer. I once tried to explain how much the energy consumption was to make paper compared to plastic that is really a waste product of the petroleum process and is easily returned to fuel or what I do with them reused. Even though everyplace I go uses the plastic shopping bags now I had a heck of a time finding a trash can that tightly fit one so I could reuse the bags as liners and not have to buy trash bags.

    When I go (rarely) to McDonalds for a 15 minute meal I’m left with a tray full of waste materials. I read where they were forced into going to the cardboard boxes for the sandwiches after they had switched to the foam boxes. The foam was shown to be better in all ways. Less energy to make, cleaner, insulates better, breaks down better in landfills and is even a good amendment to soil for water retention. But didn’t fit the green model. I would have to think a greedy company like McDonalds would use glasses and plates if it was cheaper to clean and reuse them than pay to throw all that junk away. After all they reuse the trays but don’t really clean them.

    Plastic bottles are made in this country as they would be far too bulky to ship from china and the process is so automated there is no labor incentive in making them anyplace but close to where they are filled. The fuel to return bottles and the energy to clean and refill far outweigh the cost of the plastic bottle. The really amazing thing is that people who complain about the cost of gasoline will pay 10 times that amount for a bottle full of water.

    It’s IMHO mostly about the playing field. Having been to many foreign countries applying and viewing manufacturing processes right or wrong. We are regulating ourselves out of business. China, India, Mexico and the list goes on are playing on such a different playing field than we have to. They are burning coal like we did in the early 1900’s and we are being forced out of burning it like we did in the 2000’s. Some of it is regulations and some of it is perception. Very little of it is based on logic.

    An interesting comparison to Google is the fuel mileage of European diesel cars compared to the same car sold in this country. Our emission are measured by what comes out the tail pipe and not by how much comes out to go one mile down the road. We burn something like 30% more fuel and with cleaning it up in the process end up no better in net pollution per mile.

    Another is ask anyone that’s a proponent of electric cars where the power for zero emissions comes from. Or if they know how much power is consumed thru transmission power lines etc. When they suggest solar or wind see if they know how much power it takes to make a solar cell or wind generator and what it takes to maintain then and or replace them. The same is true for batteries and battery life. No one ever seems to give the full story or if you are old enough to remember Paul Harvey the rest of the story. And Paul might have finished his rant with “Economics”.
     
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  10. Oct 10, 2013 #10

    gottodo1

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    Bud,
    I too stumbled on this old thread but felt like expressing a different view point.

    I'm not sure who WE are you're referring to, but if you'er talking about the USA we have less regulations for environmental pollution than China, Turkey, Europe, India or Korea, the problem is, the laws we do have, we actually make our people adhere too, over there.... not so much, at least on national companies. However if you're a US company you better adhere to it or they'll force you out of the market. If they were enforced over there on their own companies we'd actually have the advantage, except mexico they're still a free for all, if it doesn't instantly kill people (and sometimes even if it does) it's still usable there.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
  11. Oct 10, 2013 #11

    bud16415

    bud16415

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    China is a government based economy and the US is still a market based economy. In both cases the government makes the laws. I don’t actually know what is written into other nations laws but it’s purely academic if a government doesn’t enforce its laws on itself. What’s true is governments like China have an energy plan and are putting it in place to meet the demand for power their economic plan requires. The goal IMO is the economic plan at all cost. All medical statics show where their main goals are focused. You are correct Mexico is still a “free for all” and I have seen firsthand polluting by the companies we view as the “Green” leaders in the world by relocating there. All the big multinational companies are going to go to where the playing field is at least level and love going to where it’s tilted in their favor.

    In many ways you and I are expressing the same viewpoint in terms of the good old days. It is much more complex than the OP’s post. Mom had time in the old days to take advantage of the solar clothes drying because she had the economic luxury of being at home when the sun was up. Many of the modern energy consuming devices make life easier but the economy we live in makes two family income more of a necessity. What is the net sum of all this is the question, more output, greater population, more energy required. The equation is quite complicated. I suppose we also have to compare our (US) welfare system to these other countries.
    :)
     
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  12. Oct 11, 2013 #12

    nealtw

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    I post this because I thought it was funny. I agree with what both you guys are saying and For the things I don't agree with I will let them go as it could slip into politics to fast.
     
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  13. Oct 11, 2013 #13

    gottodo1

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    Bud,
    Civil conversations and ways to pass the time,

    I deal with a ton of compliance stuff in electronics OSHA, Reach, WEEE, RoHS, Conflict Minerals etc etc. I wouldn't say the US Gov is too far off from a government based economy. It started with Rail Roads, then Social security, now it's Obamacare essentially governmentizing the insurance industry by making it so the government can close down a company if they don't comply with certain requirements. Being young, I wasn't around when public transit and the rail way was governmentalized but I am here for the healthcare. This change in turn will control 99% of the healthcare industry which is one of our bigger sectors. If this sector, the one that controls the QOL for our citizens can have this happen, what can't? Which since people use "bad economy" and "green" as escape goats, it makes perfect sense they look for some way to quick fix a systemic problem that started 3-5 generations ago depending how quickly your family procreated.

    Conflict minerals (green/human rights initiative by SEC" is the first real step into controlling the electronics industry (along with other sectors) and it's succeeding beautifully.

    It seem governmentalization or socialism if you prefer is something that at this point isn't possible to stop. First trains, then social secuirty, now healthcare, 100 years from now they may hail Social security as the first great step down an amazing road of equality and peace that eventually leads to starships and replicators... we'll see. I'm actually a big fan of socialism but, with our sin nature I just don't think it can happen. Here's a good link that I think perfectly explains why http://www.whowillwinthe2012election.com/college-economics-professor-flunks-entire-class-for-sympathetic-socialistic-views/

    To reiterate again, please don't blame Obama, his Father didn't teach him any better, he's just following the example of his forefathers.

    Oh but Neal, isn't it fun?
     
  14. Oct 11, 2013 #14

    bud16415

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    Great article you linked. When I was a young man entering into industry we were about at the first test the teacher gave in the article. No one was happy about carrying the small amount of the population but it was small enough and the rewards high enough to clearly stay the course work hard and be successful on your own merits. Also the reward for doing nothing wasn’t all that great and the population as a whole clearly didn’t want to be on the receiving end one because it wasn’t that great and two because there was a social stigma for those doing it. Nearing the end of my professional life now we are moving in closer to the second or third test the professor gave. It’s not like his example though to most maybe because in his example only a matter of weeks between tests and it was very clear the shift. In my life I have seen the shift over 40 years in the workplace and that is the idea behind progressivism. If you throw a live frog into a pot of boiling water he will use his last bit of energy to jump out as he hits the boiling water. If you put that same frog in a pot of cool water and slowly turn up the heat it will happily sit there till it boils.

    We have past the tipping point within the last ten years I would say. As long as more receive than the rest contribute why wouldn’t it progress in the desired direction to socialism.

    I remember thinking a long time ago how industry (actually producing something) can support so much service industry. Someone asked and remarked on how one major company loss in a large town employing only 5% of the population would devastate the entire town closing its doors. All these figures are upside down now and its as if everyone can survive servicing each other or worse only half the people doing service and somehow manufacturing wealth enough to carry the other half. As long as the government is in the loop and can borrow and print money as needed this plan should go along nicely. I think Germany tried something similar once. Weimar Republic it was called then 1923. I don’t see us having hyperinflation more like the frog in the cool water inflation. We see what they want us to see as tax in our pay but there are many hidden taxes even the Supreme Court said Obamacare mandate had to be viewed as a tax. Every bit of rising prices or declining wages taken around the whole economic loop IMO is a secret tax. All this money has to come from someplace and if they took it all as payroll tax we would stop working and go over to the other side.

    As a young man I could have seen socialism at its theory as a good thing even though I don’t think I ever saw it as being a good thing in the real world. I’m a capitalist at heart and it may sound cruel to not want everyone equal. The founders said we are all equal in having our best shot they never said we were all equal in our skills and abilities. I actually see it as cruel to not put the stress of life on everyone and force them to sink or swim. Then and only then offer the hand up to those that sink.

    I do agree a civil conversation among friends is always nice.
     
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  15. Oct 11, 2013 #15

    bud16415

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    Your article got me thinking and I was told last night where we bought the new house we will get a million trick or treaters and we should stock up. I think I have a plan that will save me some money and teach the youngsters and the parents that walk along the proper way trick or treat should be handled.

    I’m going to sit out front with my bag of treats and as the kids come up take a look at their loot bags maybe even weigh them I will have another pot there labeled ObamaCandy. Those that are faster and cover more ground should have more candy and instead of giving them a piece of mine, ok I will give them one piece but require them, ok mandate them to give me two of their pieces for the ObamaCandy pot telling them that when the slackers come along with light sacks I will give them two of mine and one from the pot.

    Yep I think I’m on to something not quite perfect because I’m still a wealth center as I’m producing some candy to start. In the perfect world the kids would just give each other their candy and no one would ever have to buy any.
     
  16. Oct 12, 2013 #16

    nealtw

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    ObamaCandy See how easy that was, I think it's against the rules.:cool:
     
  17. Oct 12, 2013 #17

    gottodo1

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    Bud, you'll have to let me know how that turns out, I wonder how much TP you'll have on your house in the morning? What part of ObamaCandy is that, where people finally revolt and we start over? To think this government that was established to literally be torn down every 21 or 40 years (can't remember how long a score is 7 or 10 years?) and yet it's lasted that long. I think that kind of goes along with the frog slowly boiling in a pot theory huh?
     

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