Weeping tile installation

Discussion in 'Framing and Foundation' started by Jungle, May 16, 2014.

  1. May 16, 2014 #1

    Jungle

    Jungle

    Jungle

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    I'm thinking of having the basement excavated by a local guy with his mini-ex ($500.) I am trying to figure out the best way to do weeping tiles.

    1) Weeping tiles should be under the footer. These seems to be the problem with most of the weeping tile repairs on youtube. The water will get into the footer and wicks into the rest of the foundations.

    I am thinking i will need a 6" slope for every 25' side of foundation. So the weeping tile will end 1 foot bellow the foot +4" for the pipe. 16" bellow the footer he will need to excavate?

    At that point it would connect to solid pipe and head to the ditch by roadway.

    Also it seems some people put a layer of plastic under the weeping tile?

    2) Would you install access pipe? Maybe at this point would be best and at the start and at highest point. I think a solid pipe that goes up along foundation with a t-intersection at the bottom, then connect to the filter pipe. I guess the idea is that you can sleep out the weeping tile in 10 years if it is blocked up?

    3) how long will 1'x1' of gravel take to huff 100 feet around the foundation? Should i get the mini-ex guy back?

    wrong:[​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
  2. May 16, 2014 #2

    slownsteady

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    You'll need the machine operator to come back to fill the ditch anyway. If you plan properly - and you have the guy for the day- you could get both done on the same day.

    I put in a "cleanout" when i did my weeping tile. I haven't had to use it yet, but I imagine one day it may come in handy. In the meantime, it has caused no problems.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
  3. May 16, 2014 #3

    Jungle

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    Watch this guy seems to say that weeping tile not bellow the footers is a common problem...

    /watch?v=LeOncNTRB20
     
  4. May 16, 2014 #4

    nealtw

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    On new construction up here they use a solid pipe that comes with holes in it, load in the gravel and put some felt on top of the gravel to filter the dirt. Use "Y"s for clean outs so you can shove a hose down and it will go in the direction the water is going. Usually the guy with the hoe does this work, ask him how much. they do it so fast it will make your head spin. If you think some times you would like to drain surface water away, run a second solid pipe for that at the same time.
     
  5. May 17, 2014 #5

    slownsteady

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    good point. I dropped a second pipe -this one solid - in the ditch and routed my downspout to it. It makes a long invisible run well away from my house.
     
  6. May 17, 2014 #6

    slownsteady

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    I'm not sure i could watch this guy for more than a few minutes again. He makes some good points, but how can you believe a guy that needs that much editing to get through a paragraph.

    Neal, you should take a look at the video. He seems to be tearing out exactly what you suggested putting in.
     
  7. May 20, 2014 #7

    nealtw

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    I can agree and disagree with a bunch of what he says. I dug up the outside to waterproof the outside of the foundation, why wouldn't he just run a new pipe outside and call it done.
    As far as going below the level of the footing, he makes it sound good but the old pipe was draining water that was getting within 4" of the slab now he will be draining water a little deeper,what about the water below that.
    If you are pumping out X amount of water at one level and then you dig in deeper, how much water will you be pumping then, and to what benifet.

    I have argued before about the drain being on the outside should always be first choice and with real good drainage down the wall so the mud dosn't push against the wall.
     
  8. May 20, 2014 #8

    slownsteady

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    I thought the same thing; if you dig a deeper trench, then the water will always be below the pipe. He also seems to dislike PVC - I'm not sure why. But i don't think he ever shows what he uses.
    This guy is simply using sales technique in place of trying to educate anyone.
     
  9. May 20, 2014 #9

    Chris

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    When we install these drains we dig the trench and then put filter fabric in first coming up both side then the rock and pipe and wrap it up like a burrito. It will keep a lot more dirt out of the rock and make for a longer lasting system.


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    nealtw and mudmixer like this.
  10. May 20, 2014 #10

    Jungle

    Jungle

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    I am still confused as to what is the purpose of weeping tile is?

    Can we agree : Weeping tile plumbing system is intended for a flood situations. maybe once a year?

    Otherwise people are using it as a plumbing solution for regular rain, excessive water around the foundation. Can we agree the weeping tile system as it is will not work for this problem, at least for not very long ?

    I am wondering the weeping tiles system may make the problem worse, because the water will be drawn through the grave to the pipe but then without enough of a flood it will just drain...bellow the footer! Exactly were i don't want it.
    But this is why you have to put a water barrier that goes under the pipe all the way up. It seems some people put plastic under the pipe and other don't? It seems the pipe should be designed with holes on the top half only.
    If there is a big enough flood, it may fail again, again why would i want water ending up bellow the footer and slab?

    The other solution is above the gravel could be 2'x2' of open cell foam to absorb any rain water. This would work as a filter too. I guess nobody has tried this.
     
  11. May 20, 2014 #11

    Chris

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    The pipe that we use only has a couple rows of holes all down the pipe so the bottom will still flow water. We also set the pipe on the bottom and then cover with rock or you have to wait until water fills the void before it starts draining. We mainly use this system for flood control. One of my mountain houses is the oldest house on the street and the other pads have all been built up so the street water flows through my property and threatens to flood the house, we put one of these around the house and it diverts the water pretty good. We don't have huge issues of ground water around here so most of the time we just slope the dirt away from the home and we are all good.
     
  12. May 21, 2014 #12

    nealtw

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    Today all basement holes are dug 10ft bigger than the house so five ft all around as the back fill is disturbed soil and surface water will make it's way to the bottom of the footing. You don't really want to any deeper than the bottom of the footing, as water in the soil under the footing is adding to ther support of the house in many older houses when they weren't so picky on soil conditions.
    The last thing you want is to hold water in the soil, it just adds tons of weight pushing on the wall. You don't put polu under the pipe.
     
  13. May 21, 2014 #13

    Chris

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    Makes sense, we don't have basements here.


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  14. May 21, 2014 #14

    nealtw

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    [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4_qZEEkuYA[/ame]
    Keep in mind the gravelunder the pipe will carry water away for years before it plugs up and then the pipe really starts to work.
    This guy appears to use poly over the gravel but it should be fabric or filter paper.
     
  15. May 21, 2014 #15

    slownsteady

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    Weeping tiles (you can call it a french drain if you like, I don't mind) are intended to carry excess water away from your foundation. The earth actually does a good job of absorbing and distributing water in most cases. But in the spring, during thaw, or a couple of days of heavy rain, even a dry basement may be threatened by the amount of water that the soil can't absorb. The word flood is a little misleading.

    If the ground is not saturated, this amount of water is not a problem. If the soil can't hold anymore water, it will find its way to the pipe and can flow away. Of course, if your foundation wall is porous, you have a bigger issue than just needing weeping tile. That's why you usually see some kind of integrated system of waterproofing the exterior wall, maybe adding a curtain drain and plenty of gravel while you have the trench open and you have access to the exterior of the foundation wall.

    Why anybody would want to trap the water in a big sponge right outside their house and let it stay there until who knows when....well, that I can't answer. I also have a hunch that the weight of the soil would crush that sponge pretty completely. And open cell foam rots too quick.
     
  16. May 21, 2014 #16

    Jungle

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    I don't know about that apple drain video.
    He didn't wash the wall before the tar, how will it stick? Should be blue seal vapor barrier there i think too. This magic filter fabric will last how long before rotting?
     
  17. May 21, 2014 #17

    slownsteady

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    Yeah, the Apple Drain video isn't perfect. Any body viewing that would think you only have to dig down a foot. But if you have a basement......

    Landscape cloth - Geocloth - can last for years. I'm not talking about the the stuff at your local big box garden center.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2014
  18. May 22, 2014 #18

    nealtw

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    We see all kinds of stuff being done all in the same area for a bunch of reasons, Yes the wall should have been cleaned. If the wall has honey comb or small cracks the stick a poly to the wall while the coating is still wet. They use something black in a caulking tupe to cover all the holes where form ties held the forms together when the concrete was poored. If the soil is clay based the put a dimped sheet against the wall to give the water a path to the bottom.
     
  19. Jun 3, 2014 #19

    Jungle

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    I found out some more interesting info.
    Gravel = no good
    Why? Gravel will sink bellow plastic pipe unless you anchor it some how and still the gravel will be under there.
    So one company says they use 3-4 big-o filter pipes instead. Seems like a good plan. I can probably hand shovel the dirt back in when by hand? gravel would be a lot more work too. The pipes should be the same or better than the gravel to attract water. Maybe keep the middle one with the holes on the sides ? for the trickle water.

    /watch?v=3s9PeRtpkN4
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
  20. Jun 3, 2014 #20

    nealtw

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    Not sure why you ask advice, you always do your own research until you find the one guy who agrees with some idea that you have.
     

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