Wiring workshop

Discussion in 'Electrical and Wiring' started by matt_vo, Sep 25, 2012.

  1. Sep 25, 2012 #1

    matt_vo

    matt_vo

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    Hi all,
    Was wondering if this is possible/permitted.
    I'd like to wire my garage to power some woodworking tools and add receptacles. I'd like to have a couple 20 Amp 110V receptacles, and a 20 Amp 220V receptacle to power a table saw. My main panel is around 30 ft away. I know I need 12 gauge wire.

    Can I run a single 12/3 wire from my panel to my workshop, on two individual 20 amp 110v breakers, bridged with those metal clips, and then split it so I get receptacles running on 110V with 1 hot and 1 neutral routed to one breaker, and have the 220V receptacle with 2 hots routed to both breakers? I read somewhere on the interwebs someone doing just that. Seems logical.

    Thanks in advance.
    Matt
     
  2. Sep 25, 2012 #2

    CallMeVilla

    CallMeVilla

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    You are better served by installng a small subpanel. This will allow you to have your circuit breakers set up for 110VAC and 220VAC without splitting the single wire. I recently did this in a garage to install receptacles, overhead lights, an in-wall AC unit, dust collector, and power for a large table saw. All went well.

    IMG_0009.jpg

    Subpanel rewire.jpg
     
    nealtw likes this.
  3. Sep 26, 2012 #3

    matt_vo

    matt_vo

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    Hey,
    Thanks for the suggestion and pictures, but I think installing a smaller subpanel is more than what I need. It would cost more and take more time to install. All I need are a couple of receptacles to power my tools. And my main panel isn't that far away so if a breaker trips I won't mind walking a little more to it.
    It's a small, weekend workshop/garage.
    So to come back to my question, is what I suggested feasible, and if so, permitted by code?

    Thanks again!
    Matt
     
  4. Sep 26, 2012 #4

    joecaption

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    Sorry Matt big mistake.
    Been through this a hundred times with customers.
    They all say all I needs is a few outlet, then they start adding more stiff, needing 220 volts, running a vacuum at the same time as a saw to collect the dust, garage door opener, more outside lights ECT..
    Now all the money you spent on wire is down the toilet and you have to redo the whole thing just to up size the wire.
    Doing it right once is far cheaper.
    Those panels are not all that expencive.
     
  5. Sep 26, 2012 #5

    Wuzzat?

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    How many of those customers are happy without the upgrade?

    What is the labor time & parts cost for two or more NEC compliant options?

    How likely is it that you will want to upgrade for your occasional use workshop?
    After how long?

    How much trouble & $ is it to upgrade if you don't go with the subpanel?
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
  6. Sep 27, 2012 #6

    nealtw

    nealtw

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    Matt: I'll just pile on with everyone else. As soon as you start working in the shop you will want something else, you know "guys and there toys". And no I don't think what you want to do is code.
     
  7. Sep 27, 2012 #7

    CallMeVilla

    CallMeVilla

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    OK, notwithstanding what I said previously, I guess you could try a different approach.
    1. Run a dedicated 220VAC line for your saw from the main. Make sure you have the properly sized breaker. Install a single receptacle for that purpose in the garage.
    2. Run a dedicated 20A circuit from the main with the appropriate breaker and install receptacles as needed. You probably only need two or three single gang receptacles . . . but I have seen as many as three double gang on one circuit.
    3. Do NOT try bridging or skimping on the design. Just bite the small bullet and install as I have suggested.

    Does that help you find a middle ground?? Hope so because you have wood to cut! :)
     
  8. Sep 27, 2012 #8

    Wuzzat?

    Wuzzat?

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    BTW, are there informal or formal rules that most pros would agree on
    for distance to the main panel and for power requirements
    such that an OP would almost certainly need a subpanel?

    Same question for almost certainly not needing a subpanel?

    Do the rules change if labor is free?
     
  9. Oct 4, 2012 #9

    matt_vo

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    Thanks for the replies guys,
    I also forgot to mention that the previous owners ran a line through the garage for some exterior receptacles. So I'll use that circuit to add lighting.
    I ended up running a 15 amp 220VAC line to the table saw from the main panel, with two single pole 15 amp breakers. Works fine. I might just run another independent 20amp circuit as Villa suggested, instead of splitting. Although I still seem to think that splitting is a logical solution. As you sure it doesn't meet code?

    Thanks!
     
  10. Oct 4, 2012 #10

    Wuzzat?

    Wuzzat?

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    Meeting code gives some certainty of reasonable safety somewhat independent of the skill level of the installer. Just understand the rules and follow them.

    Not meeting code can still be reasonably safe depending on your skill level. Understand where the current will flow and how much will flow during fault conditions.

    For additional safety you can get breakers with trip curves designed to handle your particular loads, which seem to be motors.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012
  11. Oct 5, 2012 #11

    dthornton

    dthornton

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    Matt, I agree with the big guys that you would be better off with a small subpanel, The panel and wire would cost less than $150 at Home Depot, and would meet all the needs you may encounter. As for what you did meeting code? You need to make a phone call to your local city hall building inspector to find out what may or may not be allowed in your locality. Also, the work you did/will do may or may not require a permit and possibly inspection by the local boys.
     
  12. Nov 7, 2012 #12

    Jhilton

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    I ran into the same scenario here recently, I ended up running 6/3 NM from my main panel with a single 50amp double post through conduit 45 feet to my storage building. Then to a 125AMP 8 space panel ($19.00) from Lowe's. Now I have a 220V outlet for my heater and 12 total 110V outlets ad 4 fluorescent lights. All at a total cost of less than $350. My biggest 2 expenses were ditch witch rental $75 half day and $150 for the 6/3 wire. I ran 12/2 to all my 110v and 8/3 to my 220v. I did all the work myself so saved on all the labor costs. My own little opinion for what it's worth is spend the few extra $ now to save yourself a headache later down the road if you do decide you want anything extra.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2012
  13. Nov 7, 2012 #13

    Wuzzat?

    Wuzzat?

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    Last edited: Nov 7, 2012
  14. Nov 7, 2012 #14

    speedy petey

    speedy petey

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    Well there's a big violation. Obviously this was not inspected. :rolleyes:
     
  15. Nov 7, 2012 #15

    CallMeVilla

    CallMeVilla

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    Should have run strands, not NM, in conduit . . . Ooops. Maybe this was a mis-typed sentence.
     
  16. Nov 8, 2012 #16

    speedy petey

    speedy petey

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    The biggie is that NM is NOT to be used in a wet location. A conduit underground IS most definitely a WET location.

    UF would be legal but not at all recommended due to it's size.
    I also hope it was a typo.
     
  17. Nov 16, 2012 #17

    ckelly10

    ckelly10

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    Are you planning on doing this yourself? I tried to do some wiring myself in my garage once upon a time and thought I had done a good job until I started hearing cracking noises when I used the electrical equipment about 2 weeks later. Ended up calling a professional electrician in my local area who said that it was a good job I had called because my wiring was terrible and could have started a fire at any time. Think in future I will just stick to doing simple repair work from now on.
     

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