Opening up a wall

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Greenturd88

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Hello everyone new hear and have a question(obviously). So I recently bought this house. It's just over 900sqft ranch and I wanted to take a wall down further from the living room to the kitchen. Right now there is about a 7ish ft opening and I wanted to take it back another about 5ft. My roof ridge Isnt very high I was wondering if I need a big header or if I can use 2x2x4s vertically from the roof rafters down to the ceiling joists. The attic height isn't very large and currently there is the same type of support for the current opening. The outside wall of the current opening is the exterior wall of the house.
 
Welcome to the site.
The big question is which way the ceiling joists go?
Is there now some support for the roof landing on this wall?
 
This is one of the most frequent topics we see here. the basics can give you clues .... If the wall is parallel to the ceiling rafters the opening is probably a partition wall, not a bearing wall. If the rafters are perpendicular to the wall you better check closer. If the rafters sit on your wall, you might have a bearing situation. Bearing requires you to carry the roof load down to the foundation .... and using a header transfers the load to the sides safely.

Are you trying to create a clear span open look? A partition wall allows this without a header. A bearing wall absolutely requires a header engineered for the span width and loads.

Here is a video you might find helpful: https://search.yahoo.com/search;_yl...r=yfp-t-693-s&fr2=p:fp,m:sa&type=fpbucket_693
 
If it's a typical ranch, the wall running between the kitchen and LR, and down the length of the house is probably a load bearing wall. If your roof framing is trusses, the weight would be on the outside walls. Given that you said the existing opening is basically hung from the rafters, it's more likely stick built roof and a load bearing wall.
A 13 foot opening is going to need something more than a couple of 2x4s. First you need to find out if it is a load bearing wall before you open it up further.
 
It's load bearing for sure. Looking at the wall and the ceiling joists run north and south the wall I would like to open more runs east to west
 
That will need some type of beam with support on each end that extends down to the foundation. An engineer to figure out what the load is and how to deal with it would be the way to go.
 
Ok so then my next question would be since one side of the existing opening is the exterior wall this means the roof line is close to the ceiling. What do you do then? Cut the beam on an angle to fit?
 
Usually the beam would be below the ceiling, it can be lifted up like you are thinking but no one should cut a beam on the angle with out an engineers approval.
Depending on load the beam could be anywhere from 9 to 14" high, cutting that angle on a 14" beam would not work.
 
As nealtw points out the beam is usually below the ceiling. That being said, do you have enough ceiling height to put a beam in. I know a lot of those older houses didn't have 8' ceilings.
 
So the post would be where the end of the wall is now?
Is there a bulkhead in the area that is open now, how high is that now?
In new construction 2 2x10s are usually the min.
 
Greenturd88 said:
Hello everyone new hear and have a question(obviously). So I recently bought this house. It's just over 900sqft ranch and I wanted to take a wall down further from the living room to the kitchen. Right now there is about a 7ish ft opening and I wanted to take it back another about 5ft. My roof ridge Isnt very high I was wondering if I need a big header or if I can use 2x2x4s vertically from the roof rafters down to the ceiling joists. The attic height isn't very large and currently there is the same type of support for the current opening. The outside wall of the current opening is the exterior wall of the house.
Click to expand...

Here is a general rule of thumb for determining load bearing;

If you have a basement with a center support beam and this wall occurs above above that beam, either parallel or perpendicular with the floor joists, it could be*load*bearing.

If your house is single story, in the attic, if the ceiling joists continue over it, end over it, are spliced over it, or you have roof bracing landing on it, It's a*bearing*wall. If the ceiling joist are parallel with the wall and you have roof bracing landing on it, It's a*bearing*wall.

If there is a 2nd floor above the wall, you have two options. You can remove a section of ceiling on both sides of the wall to determine if the 2nd floor, floor joists, cross it or end over it. If so, Its*load*bearing. Or you can use a stud finder to determine the location and direction of the joists.

Here is a link that should be of assistance;
http://www.awc.org/pdf/WCD1-300.pdf*
 
Greenturd88 said:
It's load bearing for sure. Looking at the wall and the ceiling joists run north and south the wall I would like to open more runs east to west
Click to expand...

There generally 3 options available to you, given that one end of the existing opening is the exterior wall.

No matter what you elect to attempt to accomplish, support the ceiling on both side of the area to be removed.

The first, and it may already be 2/3rds accomplished, if your existing header is a dropped header, is to remove the existing header and replace it with a like dimensioned, full length, product, with a box post or or a 6x6 decorative turned post supporting the load under the original end of the existing header.

The second is to install a full length flush header which would rest one end on the exterior wall, a intermediate support as described above, and over the wall describing the width of the opening.

The third is to install full length header, without an intermediate post.

The general rule for determining the size of a dimensional lumber header is 1" of height for 1' of length it will span.

Regarding sloping the end of a header to fit the roof slop. The first 12" of a dimensional lumber header, is allowed to be cut for the slop of the roof, because the 1st 12" are discounted in the loading calculation, due to inherent splitting that occurs in the lumber drying process.
 
Regarding sloping the end of a header to fit the roof slop. The first 12" of a dimensional lumber header, is allowed to be cut for the slop of the roof, because the 1st 12" are discounted in the loading calculation, due to inherent splitting that occurs in the lumber drying process.
Click to expand...

I have a question about this: I can imagine that if the tapered end was tucked in the eave, that would be no problem. But what if the tapered end is over (or close to) the vertical support?
 
slownsteady said:
I have a question about this: I can imagine that if the tapered end was tucked in the eave, that would be no problem. But what if the tapered end is over (or close to) the vertical support?
Click to expand...

Me too. A 2x4 rafter with a 1' birdsmouth will have 2 1/2 inches on the outside of the wall for the beam and the angle cut on a 14"would be 16" long on a 6/12 pitch and longer with a lower pitch roof. I havn't found anything to do with this on the net.
 
slownsteady said:
I have a question about this: I can imagine that if the tapered end was tucked in the eave, that would be no problem. But what if the tapered end is over (or close to) the vertical support?
Click to expand...

Because I would address this from a framers perspective, It's a little hard to detail, unless you know the roof pitch, rafter size, rafter tail as well as the CJ size and spacing.

Also one end of the existing opening is the exterior wall, the existing header and any new header would be, "over the vertical support", or am I not understanding the question.
 
nealtw said:
Me too. A 2x4 rafter with a 1' birdsmouth will have 2 1/2 inches on the outside of the wall for the beam and the angle cut on a 14"would be 16" long on a 6/12 pitch and longer with a lower pitch roof. I havn't found anything to do with this on the net.
Click to expand...

I think you are mixing points of inquiry.

I'm having difficulty visualizing a 1' long birdsmouth cut into a 2x4 rafter with a 6/12 pitch.
 
When I read the post, I wondered if you were saying that the "sloping end of the header" was allowed as part of the load bearing portion of the beam (as opposed to just an end sticking out). I get it, if it is just sticking out into the eave and needs to be sloped to fit.
 
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