Concrete Block Wall, Masonry Cement and Mason Sand Ordering

Hi everyone,

Working on a small wall. I have ordered my cinder blocks and now I need to go pick my masonry cement and mason sand. I am going to be mixing my mortar since it appears to be more cost effective and less prone to being unworkable once mixed. The wall is 4 ft high and 1 foot is above ground, rest is below and rests on the footer.

The formula my building book says to use is:
1 part masonry cement (Type S I would assume)
2-3 parts mortar sand

My calculator application is giving this for material calculations:
42ft x 4ft = 189 blocks (8 x 8 x 16)
6 - 75 Lbs bags of masonry cement
18 cubic feet or 1 tons of masonry sand

Here is my question. I called up the local mason supply in the area. 1 place sells 1 ton mason sand for $55 bucks. The second place sells 1 yard bags for $50. I told the lady what I needed at the second place and she says its sounds like I need a 1/2 a yard bag, which didn't make sense to me.

Can someone explain what I should be asking for based on my measurements above? I am confused. I know 1 ton = 2000 pounds. I was a bit surprised that the first place had 1 ton bags. I thought the bags came in 1/2.

Any experienced masons shed some light on here?

I yard is 27 cu ft. so if you need 18 cu ft, a 1/2 yard will not do it.

nealtw said:

I yard is 27 cu ft. so if you need 18 cu ft, a 1/2 yard will not do it.

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Thanks neal, so based on what you just mentioned a 1/2 yard bag would only give 13.5 cu ft.

Any idea why 1 places says they sell 1 ton bags versus the other saying 1 yard bags? Is it correct to assume that its the same bag?

fcastro said:

Thanks neal, so based on what you just mentioned a 1/2 yard bag would only give 13.5 cu ft.

Any idea why 1 places says they sell 1 ton bags versus the other saying 1 yard bags? Is it correct to assume that its the same bag?

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Just ask for the measurement of the bag i yd = 3 ft x 3 ft x 3 ft.
If you are having it delivered, the delivery is the biggest part of the cost.

I am going to hopefully pick up the bag with the trailer I attach to my truck. It can handle up to 2000 lbs.

I thought when masons order things there would be some similar language for the sand bags lol.

fcastro said:

I am going to hopefully pick up the bag with the trailer I attach to my truck. It can handle up to 2000 lbs.

I thought when masons order things there would be some similar language for the sand bags lol.

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Around here the masons have a flat bed truck with all their supplies which include a pile of sand and they likely go to the pit where all the bags stock come from. Then it would be loaded by the number of scoops with a loader where the yardage of the scoop is known. but the truck would be weighed on the way in and out and they pay for it by weight.

So if you knew where the pit was you might get it a little cheaper by just asking for a ton of sand loaded into the trailer. But for $55 it is hardly worth the bother.

And it's not every pit that has the quality of sand that you need so it might be brought from some distance.

I agree with you neal on that price, plus my trailer just has a bar a foot off the bottom so the sand would probably fly out on the drive back, lol. I'll have to go tomorrow and ask about the bags weight.

Neal any comment on which type of mortar to use? "M" or "S"?

The block wall is 4 ft high and about 3 feet will be underground and back filled. I plan on parging the block and then possibly adding miradrain to relieve the hydro-static pressure. Even though now that I think about it, since this part of the split has no basement maybe I don't need to worry about hydro-static pressure. The other side of the split does have a daylight basement so miradrain makes sense there.

fcastro said:

I agree with you neal on that price, plus my trailer just has a bar a foot off the bottom so the sand would probably fly out on the drive back, lol. I'll have to go tomorrow and ask about the bags weight.

Neal any comment on which type of mortar to use? "M" or "S"?

The block wall is 4 ft high and about 3 feet will be underground and back filled. I plan on parging the block and then possibly adding miradrain to relieve the hydro-static pressure. Even though now that I think about it, since this part of the split has no basement maybe I don't need to worry about hydro-static pressure. The other side of the split does have a daylight basement so miradrain makes sense there.

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Nope, those question are above my pay grade.:trophy:

Either will work.

M is the strongest at 2500psi, and S is next at 1800psi.

If your wall is not retaining you could conceivably use N, which is the mix you have quoted, less 3 scoops of sand.

So in essence, your formula, minus the lime, is somewhere between S & N.

Masons generally order by the ton- they know from experience how much mortar that will make. Bags are sold either by weight or volume. Get a little extra, better than running short. Give away the excess, make a sandbox for the kids, or just sling it across your lawn till it's all gone. I'm no good at doing this stuff so I just use the phone for my masonry tool set!

Phil