inspectorD

inspectorD in this thread http://www.houserepairtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14742 you said "you can not modify a truss, only an engineer can do this" I beg to differ. If I take all the braces out of a truss and with the use of a reciprocating saw reduce the remaining lumber to 2X2's or less, then I have most certainly modified the truss, and I did not need an engineer to do so.

I do not appreciate you telling the kids something can't be done. The word "can't" is not a respectful word. There may be steps necessary to achieve something and in some larger cities one of those steps might even be to obtain an Engineering Degree first. But anyone can do anything as long as they set their mind to it and are willing to achieve the necessary steps to complete that goal.

The word "can't" is a degrading word, it says you are worth less then me because I said you "can't". Please do not condemn people, inspire them or guide them. As with every generation these kids are our future, for life is short, we only "live on" in the knowledge we shared and the memories we left.

It's your truss, do want you want to it and when it fails you know who to blame. Trusses are designed to spread the dead and live load, when you modify it you can cause catastrophic failure.

Intolerable said:

inspectorD in this thread http://www.houserepairtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14742 you said "you can not modify a truss, only an engineer can do this" I beg to differ. If I take all the braces out of a truss and with the use of a reciprocating saw reduce the remaining lumber to 2X2's or less, then I have most certainly modified the truss, and I did not need an engineer to do so.

I do not appreciate you telling the kids something can't be done. The word "can't" is not a respectful word. There may be steps necessary to achieve something and in some larger cities one of those steps might even be to obtain an Engineering Degree first. But anyone can do anything as long as they set their mind to it and are willing to achieve the necessary steps to complete that goal.

The word "can't" is a degrading word, it says you are worth less then me because I said you "can't". Please do not condemn people, inspire them or guide them. As with every generation these kids are our future, for life is short, we only "live on" in the knowledge we shared and the memories we left.

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Spoken like a true designer, we do try to stop people from making mistakes that could cost thousands to fix but I guess you don't care.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqA00i5spxM[/ame]

"can't" is a degrading word

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This is what I find very interesting.

Admin said:

This is what I find very interesting.

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That must have hit a sore spot, like he hears that to often.

I was going to modify a truss in my old garage for a two post lift, luckily I have an engineer in the family but after talking to him the only safe way to do it was so labor intensive that I ditched the whole idea. Not only would I have to modify the trusses I would have had to add beams to span several of the existing trusses to spread the extra load. Wasn't worth it.

Just because you "Can" doesn't mean you should. There's an old saying, stupid is as stupid does.

I agree that you probably can modify and will likely never have an issue but in reality you are taking a gamble. Also remember that most tract homes and really most homes built in the last century are built to the minimum standard. They use all sorts of math to figure out loads and weight bearings instead of just going overkill like things used to be built.

Sounds like someone had a bad day........

I would hope that most that have read this post understand that the modification I suggested was suggested as an intentional fail. The point was to show that a truss, as anything, CAN be modified. And without good advice those modifications can be disastrous.

And yes the word CAN'T is a catch word that gets under my skin, especially coming from a professional. In American Society we spend too much time telling our children, our friends, and our co-workers all the negatives that defeat confidence and hence competence. Henry Ford was told that he couldn't, and he was told that for 40 years. Can you imagine how much more prosperous we could be as a nation if we were supportive of each other, instead of negative.

Thanks for a lot of good advice on rafters. However I was just criticizing InspectorD for the way he treated the gentleman in the thread I linked.

Intolerable said:

I would hope that most that have read this post understand that the modification I suggested was suggested as an intentional fail. The point was to show that a truss, as anything, CAN be modified. And without good advice those modifications can be disastrous.

And yes the word CAN'T is a catch word that gets under my skin, especially coming from a professional. In American Society we spend too much time telling our children, our friends, and our co-workers all the negatives that defeat confidence and hence competence. Henry Ford was told that he couldn't, and he was told that for 40 years. Can you imagine how much more prosperous we could be as a nation if we were supportive of each other, instead of negative.

Thanks for a lot of good advice on rafters. However I was just criticizing InspectorD for the way he treated the gentleman in the thread I linked.

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I couldn't find that anyone said " you can't " in that thread.
We know that people cut their trusses every day and as it takes some time for weakened structure to fail, they believe the got away with it.

With that in mind any time some one is suggesting it could be done, we tend to jump on that as something that should never be done with out the help of an engineer.

Sorry I ruffled feathers.. I have seen so much done to homes that I cant believe some are still standing. I gave free advice.. Take it or leave it.
Anyone can do whatever it is that they like , just as you just did.
I would never advocate someone does their own modifications to a truss without some professional advice.
You do what you like and carry on.... No problem.
Just make sure your there when the Sugar hits the fan.

I have seen a lot as well that just amaze me that they still stand, but they are kids trying, I envy them their strength, and respect their ambition.

I can see a little bit of Intolerable’s thought process as I’m all about the “Live free or die” mentality that made this country strong. I grew up in a time where dad bought a lot dug a basement laid some blocks and built a house on top of it all by the sweat of his brow. 99% of those homes are still standing and are built to a lack of standard that’s likely many times what code requires. But they end up getting sold and passed down and the moto changed to “Buyer Beware” I didn’t even have a problem with that for the most part.

That is not the society we now live in for the most part. Homes and home design are now relegated to strict standards good or bad, that we all have to live by. It may or may not be the system you like or the one that’s best for the “Kids” to learn and grow under, but it is the one we have to follow. For the most part the “Kids” are one or two generations removed from the generation that did what they wanted and knew how to fly by the seat of their pants. I don’t see a lot of kids ready to take on the world that way anymore and most would do better following the rules. For their own safety and for future resale along with a whole bunch of reasons to not buck the system.

So if someone said you can’t cut into a truss I think it wasn’t said in the literal meaning of can’t but in the meaning of it is not a great idea because no matter how smart you think you are in doing it and even if you do it 100 better than what it was prior to cutting without a piece of paper saying it was ok to do it will come back to bite you in the ___.

Two reasons I'm with the Inspector on this one:

First, trusses are designed to do a specific job with the least amount of material possible (that's how the builder saves money) and to take anything away from that design risks a loss of integrity of the truss.

Second, although you might be saving some bucks in the short-term, you have set up a situation where the value of the house may be diminished because the inspector's (little i, any inspector) will write that up and send to the home buyer.

Third, (yep, go ahead and chuckle) I wouldn't recommend something like that on an internet forum because I am not there to see just what the situation is.

Bud mentions how it was done in the old days, but in the old days a house was truly "stick-built" and judging from the beams I have seen in old houses, there was plenty of strength to spare.