some roof questions

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Ok , I kinda figured that was gonna be imposable to read. One thing I hate about this house is no internet connection. Everything is off my phone , or a laptop in conjunction with my wifes hotspot , and no mouse! All slow and impossible to maneuver.


From the pic you can probabaly make out some points I do have questions on . The lower square is the inlaw setup , the upper rectangle is the main house . My measurements were taken from outside of stud to outside of stud in the basement . In a perfect world I would assume the stud layout should end up the same on the second floor , for a truss length I would have to take the outside stud demsion and add to it the sheathing thickness on both sides correct?

My big question , I know the dimensions are not legiable....but the main house steps out 8" for some reason towards the top 18'8" of the floor plan . Can I just install the exact same size trusses on the second floor and build the new wall accordingly to accept them? I would then have to weather in the 8" exposed on the outside at the 2nd floor 'floor level' .

obviously you wouldn't stager the ridge line . Or would the lumber yard make a truss to take that into account and I build the walls with the exact OD of the first floor?
 
Outside of sheeting to outside of sheeting is the correct way to measure the house. Missing the measurement by a 1/2 to 3/4 can be dealt with no one will know. I pointed out that step back earlier and you just rip down the wall fill in the floor if it's not there and build a new wall. You will be re-siding that end of the house above the garage anyway.
Oh; that eight inches, that pic is back one page. The house was designed to have a gable facing the front. That would add cost and tricky work. Just tell the truss company that you want all the trusses to line up no jogs, they will have to add some to the rest of the trusses as the bairing point has moved. Likely they would add a peice of 2x4 into the truss over the wall.
 
If you check my post#58 you can see how the front gable is put up with a gable and a valley set.
 
Neal, the link you posted in post number 53 shows the framing of the exterior walls and they are putting the plywood on verticle to the wall studs. I always thought that ply was installed on the horizonal to the wall studs. Roof decking always goes on horizonal.
 
I posted that one just so we could find the mistakes and talk about them. As I understand it plywood is omnidirectional and osb has a direction it should be used but I have installed both in both direction and never had it failed. On the roof we put the sheeting on across the trusses but when you get a hip 4 ft from a valley we turn it the other way, never had that fail either.
 
nealtw said:
I would go up to a 6/12, the lower you go the more work will have to be done after they are installed, tee bracing and such that will be in the instructions to make them strong enough for what ever snow load you might require. and you have a better chance of walking around in them for flat ceiling.
I would go with vaulted on the lower roof and then you will need to go 6/12 outside and get 4/12 inside a little trickier to assemble but not impossible.
The upper roof I would build the new walls with full height pre cut studs knok the top plates off and add studs beside the old ones and bring them up to height if the old exterior is 2x4 just make the new studs and top plates 2x6 and later you could add the 2" where needed to bring the rest of the wall out to 2x6. I would raise the headers in the old walls too.
Vaulting in the upper roof only if it is one big room as usually they are flat and vault one room,say a master bedroom or bath. If you vault the whole thing then the interior walls have to be built later to meet the ceiling height.
On a 6 or 4 / 12 the tales close to 2ft usually. they don't want them to interfere with the windows, the higher the pitch the shorter the tales with an eight foot ceiling. With a nine foot ceiling you lower the windows to allow for longer tails. So yes you would be close to 26 ft give or take.
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I really like that idea to raise the ceiling on the 2nd floor and keep a flat ceiling. There are 3 beds and a bath up there. If I'm going to mess with that existing wall( which is almost 44' long) I gotta ask one more question.

Down the road when money is there , could be years , I want an addition on that side of the house. A big living room 2 story's high possiably the length of that wall and out away from the wall maybe 25'. I want that wall in question to open up at that point in time. The bedroom walls would pull back about 4' into the existing building. That would leave me a 4' balcony overlooking the living room.
If I'm going to mess with the wall maybe I could build it with say 4 columns and a big beam across . Tie the existing wall Into that for now.what should I look into for what I would need for that?
 
For the addition, that is making it huge. I can only talk about what they might design for that. there would be a big girder to hold up the existing trusses witch will include special footings in the foundation and may need a third bairing point and a valley set to go on todays roof with a gable out the back. there is a limit to the height a truck can move so you will have trusses on top of trusses.
I would draw up that set of plans too and let them look at both and make suggestions on the best way to consider both jobs.
If you went with a hip style roof now, you would have a girder about 6 ft from the back wall and might make the addition easier as you would just remove the outer six ft and add more roof on top.
But all this is engineers work, they design it ,we just put them up. But it is a good time to talk about it.

Back to the basics, I want to know about the floor upstairs, now. Joists size exactly, span and on center, plywood thickness.
 
Yea , that's way beyond my ability to even learn , at that point I would need an architect to draw it all up , and sub a lot of it out. Kinda why I din't mention it till now. Just figured if I was going to rebuild that back wall I might want to address it now. Guess my next stop sgould be an architect before the lumber yard . I have an idea what I want but no set dimensions , most likely not that long. In all reality it may never even happen.

The current 2nd floor ( the actual floor I'm assuming is what your asking) is 2x6 , 16"o.c. , covered with a 5&1/2 " tounge and groove board. A bunch of walls on the first floor are load bearing as the joists change directions here and there , varying their length . My plan is to add beams and open the first floor up a bit.
 
Oops, that ain't gonna work! Your new floor will be a span of about 10,12 ft yes. 2x10 min joists. This job just got bigger. That sounds like some added the back half of the upper floor on existing ceiling joists. At the very least we have to spend some time talking about the floor. If you have a crawl space or basement try to figure out just what walls down stairs are actually bearing or have a beam under them.
 
Ouch , well I had to get medevil on my drawings. I'll have to get my cad guy to draw them up.

Basement throughout house. 2x6 joists throughout main house , 2x8 under inlaw. The main beam in the basement runs about 4-6" off center to the south of the first floor wall deviding the stairs/living room from the dining room .

I believe the second floor joists run north south in kitchen/ dining room. East west in living room / foyer.

I'm going to draft second drawings on what I want it to be.

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I want you to measure the joists again. 2x6 = 1.5x 5.5- , 2x8 = 1.5x 7.5- rough 2x6 = 2+x 6-. I'm a non believer but I have seen some strange things.
Is that the only bearing wall in the basement, I can't figure out what is holding the floor up upstairs. Is there a drop beam between the living room and the area beside the dinning?
 
Ok I just noticed something weird. All the joists in the basement are 2x8 , 7 of them are 2x6 for some reason. The beam and sills in that area are taller making up the differance.can't really tell from this pic , but its over 65' with all the joists , 12' , running north south and resting on the beam.

imag0313-1125.jpg


I'm gonna pop some ceiling tiles tomarrow to be sure of all the joist patterns for the first floor ceiling. I'm pretty sure I already know. Every wall on my 1st floor plan is load bearing. I believe that is a beam between the kitchen and the unmarked room due south of it. Here's a pic of a joist in the dining room ceiling. It's deceiving by the pic angle , but its true measurement is 5&1/2" .

imag0316-1126.jpg


Pic looking from dining room into kitchen. You can see the beam running east west.

imag0317-1127.jpg
 
It might not be correct , but all the joists are in the first floor ceiling already , and being used as a floor. The last 4' that's shaded on the second floor isn't used as the pitch of the roof is too low. It goes from 3' tall to 0' over 4 '. I can't see the new roof weighing much more , but that weight would be distributed through the exterior walls anyway right?
 
2x8s are min. for floor joists and it is is pretty standard to have 2x6s for ceiling joists. The reasons why I think the back half upper was added later are.
If you were the builder of this house in the first place why would you not pitch the roof a little more to allow for 8 ft ceiling upstairs, Why would you dedicate space for the basement stairs when you are going to have waisted space under the upper stairs. If you used 2x8 joists down stairs why would you go against code to you 2x6s upstairs.

There are alot of other things I would be looking at if I was there, like wiring, are the wires at outlets downstairs the same vintage as the wires feeding outlets upstairs. I would look at the rafters in the unused area in the attic to see if there were caller ties that have since been removed.
My first thougt was really not a big deal just toss the upper floor walls and floor deck and add floor joists and build all new but then you have to deal with the stairs, that would require all re and re stringers landing and all.
It is time to get an engineer in to prove I am wrong and see if has ideas for saving the floor. I'm not trying to be mean but non of this would pass inspection and you wouldn't get a permit unless you can get an engineers report to go with the application.
 
I hate the stairs where they are now. My plan was to move access to the second floor into the addition down the road. Well looks like things just got a bit tougher.

In residential framing the structurial engineer is the architect correct?
 
If you are thinking of moving stairs, and you will likely have to had floor joists anyway, save the money for the engineer and just do it. Call the permit dept. at the city and the lumber yard what they think of 2x6 joists, you most likely will get the same answer without spending the money.
 
Well to my wife's dismay I started to rip open ceilings to see exactly what up there. Your not gonna believe this but the previous tile I took out was the only joist that was 16"O.C.. All the rest throughout the house are 12" O.C. The living room has double 2x6 in the long span and a tripple in one spot.

Does this help my situation by any chance? If its acceptable could I add double or triple joists in the gable framed area ?

imag0318-1128.jpg


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Have you gone to the city to see if permits were drawn for this or if it was original to the house. If so you may get away with it. If you did, you will never put tile in the bath up there. The walls on both sides of the living room have to be bairing or at least a double under them in the basement. The double and triple would be there to carry the load of the walls upstairs that don't seem to be in line. So, if you have a triple on top of a 2x4 wall, how are the joist attached to that. That might be a double with pressure blocks on one side, we would use hangers today but that might happen when the joists a just a little short.
Tell the wife the ceiling has to go anyway, that crap would not give you the time to get out of the upstairs in a fire.
If you find that you can use this as is, you said earlier that you were thinking of open walls down stairs. The time for that would be sooner rather than later. Now you would be able to hide most of a 2x10 double or beam in the floor.
I can turn your photo over to read it but I can't post it?
 
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