I am cutting a new framed opening into an existing wall of an old house built in the early 1900's. My problem is the plaster and wood lath within the wall, adjacent to where the opening was cut, is not holding up. Portions of my wall to remain around the opening are very loose; to the point that an 18"x18" portion outside of the cut opening fell right off. Does anyone have advice on reinforcing?
framed opening
- Thread starter djtico75
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nealtw
Contractor retired
Do you know if it was a load bearing wall and what did you do about that.
I think there are anchors to re-attach loose plaster to the lath.
I think there are anchors to re-attach loose plaster to the lath.
Unfortunately the composition of the early lime based plasters become very brittle when dry, so the use of the recommended anchors also has a learning curve with the eventuality of removing to a stable lath joint and replicating the demoed area with plaster lath or drywall.
However, had you stopped by before there are methods of determining how critical the opening may be to the structures viability, as well as mitigating the damage you are now faced with correcting.
They make plaster washers that you can run a drywall screw in and hold up plaster that the keys have broken off. The key is the plaster that goes between the lath and slops out the back holding it on. it is very hard to open up a hole and not make the plaster keys to break off. Most old houses already have half of them inside the wall broken off from years of hanging pictures and such. The best way is before you cut outline the opening with strips of wood. 1x4 works good and screw it to the wall trying to catch as many pieces of lath as you can then score the plaster and chip it all out before cutting the lath. Once you have it down to lath you can put more screws in close to the edge to support the lath even more. Then cut the lath out with a reciprocating saw with the blade cutting on the pull and the saw resting tight against the wood you put up. Plan on repairing a couple inches around the edge but this method is much better than having the wall get broken all over the place.
Of course as Neal mentioned know what you are taking out and how you plan on framing it before you cut out any studs.
Of course as Neal mentioned know what you are taking out and how you plan on framing it before you cut out any studs.
Thanks for the heads up. I haven't gotten through the wall completely however I dont think there's structural bearing at this location. Regardless, I will provide stud posts and a header. What I can see so far is that there are 2x4's turned sideways about 24" - 36" on center. Which doesnt surprise me since my roof is 3x4's at 42" - 48" o.c.
nealtw
Contractor retired
Balloon framing is a strange beast compared to platform framing.
Header, king studs and jack studs is always your best bet.
I have lived in and remodeled these kinds of homes for 40 years now and what you get was the skill level and the expertise of the builder that built it. The fact that it is still standing a 100 or more years later is a testament that your guy did ok. The rule of thumb in these homes is there was no code when they were built and always try to replace as much structure or more than you remove. You have to think like they did in the day and overkill everything. I never use a nail in working on these homes only use deck screws that can be put in and taken out without shock loads. Only use the high quality outdoor deck screws.
Quite often you will be ripping a 2x6 to fit where you had an old 2X4 that was actually 2” x 4” of rough sawed timber.
Take your time and do most of the cutting with a sawzall type saw. Harbor freight makes one for 25 bucks that I can’t kill after 2 years of heavy usage I didn’t think it would last a week when I got it.
Quite often you will be ripping a 2x6 to fit where you had an old 2X4 that was actually 2” x 4” of rough sawed timber.
Take your time and do most of the cutting with a sawzall type saw. Harbor freight makes one for 25 bucks that I can’t kill after 2 years of heavy usage I didn’t think it would last a week when I got it.
nealtw
Contractor retired
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nealtw
Contractor retired
The last time I cut into plaster I made two cut about 1/4" apart with a diamond blade in a skill saw, chipped that out with a screwdriver, knocked out the keys behind and cut the lath with a carbide blade. Had to chip away near the floor but molding hid damage there. I cut 3 holes without any damage then the home owners pulled down all the plaster anyway so they could re wire.
The last time I cut into plaster I made two cut about 1/4" apart with a diamond blade in a skill saw, chipped that out with a screwdriver, knocked out the keys behind and cut the lath with a carbide blade. Had to chip away near the floor but molding hid damage there. I cut 3 holes without any damage then the home owners pulled down all the plaster anyway so they could re wire.
Haha thats what happens about half the time you try and be careful and when you get done you stand back and look at how many patches you have to do and you say screw it rip it all down and drywall.
Again, this is very insightful. To make my life even more difficult there were multiple layers of wood in the wall. The first was a layer of 48" high wainscot. The second was 36" high wainscot. Lastly there's horizontal planks (very clean) which resemble old style sheathing. The planks boards are full height which lead me to believe that there are some structural properties to this wall; possible lateral? This wall is under the roof ridge but like I said the cavity is basically hollow.
nealtw
Contractor retired
Ceiling joists may be landing on the wall, which would make it bearing even if there are no other hints of it being bearing.
Generally we look for joists that join above a wall but in old houses they sometimes used full length joists that just went over interior walls but the span might be to great so the interior wall still might have some bearing.
Look below, and see if the there is bearing below or extra floor joist under it. That would prove that bearing was intended. But not having it there doesn't really prove anything.
Generally we look for joists that join above a wall but in old houses they sometimes used full length joists that just went over interior walls but the span might be to great so the interior wall still might have some bearing.
Look below, and see if the there is bearing below or extra floor joist under it. That would prove that bearing was intended. But not having it there doesn't really prove anything.
The wall is completely open from one side. I can now see that this is likely a bearing wall.
The wall is comprised of 1” plaster & wood lath, 3/4" wood slates, a 4” cavity with full 2x4 studs (rotated sideways) @ 16”-24” o.c., 1” plaster & wood lath. One of the existing studs is very close to my new opening so I’ll lay a couple flat 2x4’s on it which will essentially serve as a 6x4 post/jamb. The opposite jamb will be a 2x4 and 2x6. My plan is to install a triple 2x4 header (34” wide opening). It turns out I only have to cut out one stud so I lucked out a little.
Thanks again,
The wall is comprised of 1” plaster & wood lath, 3/4" wood slates, a 4” cavity with full 2x4 studs (rotated sideways) @ 16”-24” o.c., 1” plaster & wood lath. One of the existing studs is very close to my new opening so I’ll lay a couple flat 2x4’s on it which will essentially serve as a 6x4 post/jamb. The opposite jamb will be a 2x4 and 2x6. My plan is to install a triple 2x4 header (34” wide opening). It turns out I only have to cut out one stud so I lucked out a little.
Thanks again,
nealtw
Contractor retired
2x4 is never a header no matter how many you nail together.
What is it that tells you that it is load bearing?
What is it that tells you that it is load bearing?
