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00naomi00

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Hi Everyone,

Things are moving along here for our remodel. We had a few things that needed to be adjusted, which prompted a change request. My questions are:

1. If additional supplies were purchased, shouldn't the contractor have to provide receipts to prove cost of materials?

2. If they are saying it took 24hrs of labor to do something, but I know for a fact that it only took 14, how do I argue that point?
I was never told how much labor would cost per hour and now I'm just seeing a total for hours put in.

3. I'm being told that it costs more for labor when "his best guy" does the work. That was never mentioned to me nor is it in the contract. Is that legal? Can he charge me more if a specific person does the work?

I will say, they have been terrific to work with and have gone above and beyond. I just don't want them to be pulling one over on me. Thank you everyone. I would be lost without you all!
 
1. A contractor may mark up his material costs (his time to purchase, pick up and deliver costs money) so his receipts may not total up to what he is charging. That being said, your best defense is to have an idea of what materials cost so you know if his markup is ridiculous. I thought you were supplying all materials????

2. I'm not trying to defend him but: two men working 7 hours each on a project may be considered 14 hours. That's how the expression "man/hours" is calculated.

3. I can't think of any reason the contractor with any sense of decency can do this. His rate should be his rate, and he should have calculated in his labor costs for all of his employees. If he had to call in a specialist, he should have talked to you about the costs beforehand.

It all depends on how much detail was in the contract and whether definitions were specified. All that tedious crap at the beginning of a contract - where they define terms - is what lawyers live for. I hope you read yours carefully. Remember; "the large print giveth and the small print taketh away."
 
slownsteady said:
1. A contractor may mark up his material costs (his time to purchase, pick up and deliver costs money) so his receipts may not total up to what he is charging. That being said, your best defense is to have an idea of what materials cost so you know if his markup is ridiculous. I thought you were supplying all materials????

2. I'm not trying to defend him but: two men working 7 hours each on a project may be considered 14 hours. That's how the expression "man/hours" is calculated.

3. I can't think of any reason the contractor with any sense of decency can do this. His rate should be his rate, and he should have calculated in his labor costs for all of his employees. If he had to call in a specialist, he should have talked to you about the costs beforehand.

It all depends on how much detail was in the contract and whether definitions were specified. All that tedious crap at the beginning of a contract - where they define terms - is what lawyers live for. I hope you read yours carefully. Remember; "the large print giveth and the small print taketh away."
Click to expand...

1. Yes, I supplied everything so far, with the exception of the lighting that was changed--they purchased LED pocket lighting. I'm still planning to ask for receipts, is that reasonable?

2. That actually makes total sense and I didn't think of it that way. Thank you.

3. So, how do I address this? It wasn't a specialist that had to be brought in, it's the same guy that has been my project manager from day one. I think he is just using this as a way to mark up the labor cost. I'm already over budget and he knows this.

I will read back through my contract to see what else I can pull out of there. He's wanting another payment when 2/3 of the work is done. He already received 50% down to start the work and I have to make another payment on Tues and then a final payment when the work is done.
 
00naomi00 said:
1. Yes, I supplied everything so far, with the exception of the lighting that was changed--they purchased LED pocket lighting. I'm still planning to ask for receipts, is that reasonable?

2. That actually makes total sense and I didn't think of it that way. Thank you.

3. So, how do I address this? It wasn't a specialist that had to be brought in, it's the same guy that has been my project manager from day one. I think he is just using this as a way to mark up the labor cost. I'm already over budget and he knows this.

I will read back through my contract to see what else I can pull out of there. He's wanting another payment when 2/3 of the work is done. He already received 50% down to start the work and I have to make another payment on Tues and then a final payment when the work is done.
Click to expand...
Concerning #2: I don't mean to contradict myself and I'm not saying you shouldn't question it, but that is one way he can be trying to justify it. You should still question him on the subject.
If he adds a few dollars here and a few dollars there, it will look like it's just incidental. But when you see the total, the price tag could be significantly more.
 
Are or were you under the misunderstanding that the administrative costs of assembling and compiling invoices, was included as part of his doing business and do not have a cost?
 
Snoonyb said:
Are or were you under the misunderstanding that the administrative costs of assembling and compiling invoices, was included as part of his doing business and do not have a cost?
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I don't understand what you're asking. I'm sorry. As far as I know, I'm not being charged any administrative costs.
 
You should be, because working for free, puts no food on the table or a roof over your head.
 
Snooby is right as far as a contractor's right to profit from a job, but his overhead costs are just that - overhead. He doesn't put admin costs into his bid; that's his cost of doing business and should not affect your project. If he underestimates your project and writes a contract based on that, that is no excuse for you to pay more.
So what was the change request and how much is he adding for that change?
 
Generally a T & M contract has a percentage add-on for admin. charges and is billed at the completion.

Myself, I would never have engaged in this contract.

Mine would have been, billed on friday with the understanding that, "no cheque on sat., no work on monday".
 
Snoonyb said:
Generally a T & M contract has a percentage add-on for admin. charges and is billed at the completion.

Myself, I would never have engaged in this contract.

Mine would have been, billed on friday with the understanding that, "no cheque on sat., no work on monday".
Click to expand...

I'm so confused by your comments. I don't understand what you're saying.
 
slownsteady said:
Snooby is right as far as a contractor's right to profit from a job, but his overhead costs are just that - overhead. He doesn't put admin costs into his bid; that's his cost of doing business and should not affect your project. If he underestimates your project and writes a contract based on that, that is no excuse for you to pay more.
So what was the change request and how much is he adding for that change?
Click to expand...

Oh, he is most definitely profiting from this job, that I can guarantee. The change request was for lighting that was added, additional wiring for a heater in the bathroom since the current wiring couldn't support the additional amperage and for labor to take up the flooring in the kitchen. In all, it is an additional $2,000 for the changes.

Initially, I did the demo on the kitchen, while the contracting team did the demo on the bathroom. I paid for a dumpster and tore the kitchen apart. Due to the sharing of the dumpster (which I wasn't aware of) it got full before I could finish the floor. They had to finish pulling out what little was left of the floor and I was charged for that additional labor.
 
Honestly, the fact that he asked for 50% up front is a red flag for me. In some places they can't legally charge you that much up front-- it's 10% to start and then more as the project moves along.

He should have the receipts to calculate his costs for the project so I don't see why it would be a problem to request them. If he's organized he should have them all. He might not want to show them to you because he might have to deal with customers who don't factor in his costs in picking up the supplies and transporting them on top of the materials. So, ask for receipts for your own records and let him know that you are aware that he had to use gas to pick them up and bring them to your house.
 
Snoonyb said:
Generally a T & M contract has a percentage add-on for admin. charges and is billed at the completion.

Myself, I would never have engaged in this contract.

Mine would have been, billed on friday with the understanding that, "no cheque on sat., no work on monday".
Click to expand...
I don't know what you're referring to when you say "T&M contract". Please be so kind as to enlighten us poor consumers.
As far as admin charges, I have never seen that line item on a bill from any contractor I have hired. One further, I don't recall ever seeing it on a professional contract in my work either.
 
For me, and my self-preservation, T & M is pay as you go, IE. no pay, no go.

"Mine would have been, billed on friday with the understanding that, "no cheque on sat., no work on monday"."
 
slownsteady said:
I don't know what you're referring to when you say "T&M contract". Please be so kind as to enlighten us poor consumers.
As far as admin charges, I have never seen that line item on a bill from any contractor I have hired. One further, I don't recall ever seeing it on a professional contract in my work either.
Click to expand...

T & M is time and material.

It is an agreed upon amount and does not necessarily need to be specifically Identified as a line Item.

It's a business practice.

The admin charge is what the contractor charges as his profit and overhead and is generally a % of the total cost of the labor and material, and/or a % of the amt. billed by a subcontractor.
 
Thanks. T&M is understandable now. And yes, I think we all agree that making a profit is a good idea. And admin charges are by default buried in the price charged for a project. As the OP paid 50% up front, I'm left wondering about the relevance of the statement "no cheque on saturday........".
Last question: are you British?
 
slownsteady said:
And admin charges are by default buried in the price charged for a project.
Click to expand...

Not in my business model. The % is understood and agreed upon before I start, and it is also understood that it is invoiced at the end of the project.

slownsteady said:
As the OP paid 50% up front, I'm left wondering about the relevance of the statement "no cheque on saturday........".
Click to expand...

1st of all, no one gives me a deposit, ever. I expect to be compensated for the performance, ERGO;no cheque on sat., no work on monday.

slownsteady said:
Last question: are you British?
Click to expand...

No, that would be "no ticky, no laundry".
 
Change order are where contractors make money unless the contract had a labour rate for extras.
And if the work needed some extra person on the job that the regular guys couldn't do the work, he can just claim he was needed for the quality he brings.
Contracts are good until you open them and then you are likely to pay more than you dreamed.

It is always going to be hard to judge what was fair after the fact.
 
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