Darn whole house humidifier! Cmon! POS!

[Billbill84]

Hi all,
I have a whole house humidifier flow through bypass style mounted on the return and a takeoff duct going from supply into return. It's model "1042-L" on my furnace from 2001 and it's been a week and no increase in my home's humidity! Damper fully open, pad is new and installed correctly, solenoid clicks and works I can see water dripping down the pad and running to my condensate pump.
I don't understand why my humidity is still so low 16% after a week! I even checked the take off duct to verify it's not clogged. Upon doing so the humidifier was very warm so I know it's getting
the needed warm air. I turned the humidistat on full and after 3 days still 16-21%.
Like I said, I can see water dripping into my pump from humidifier when the furnace is running so I know it's flowing and should be working since I initially fired it up a week ago. My furnace is in a fully finished basement that's 1400sqft. Main floor is 2100 sqft, but after a week of constant heating cycles I feel that the humidity should have raised by now. Any ideas?

 

[Billbill84]

Anyone?

 

[Flyover]

I don't know much about this, but I wonder whether other things could be leeching humidity out of your air. For starters, what part of the world are you in? How dry is the air outside of your house? (Your profile says "Crown Point" but I don't know where that is.)

 

[Billbill84]

I don't know much about this, but I wonder whether other things could be leeching humidity out of your air. For starters, what part of the world are you in? How dry is the air outside of your house? (Your profile says "Crown Point" but I don't know where that is.)

Near Chicago and this area is typically extremely dry in colder seasons and the opposite in warm seasons. U suggested the possibility of other factors pulling the humidified air out of the air and that's partly true. Things in the house will absorb moisture especially when these things have been very dry like carpeting and hardwood flooring which I have throughout the main level in my house. An ex-HVAC guy I work with said that it's gonna take up to two weeks for the humidifier to have any affect in the house and this was prior to me firing it up after I asked him about turning it on.

 

[oldognewtrick]

Are you sure what you're using to check humidity is measuring properly?

 

[Flyover]

That's a good point, @oldognewtrick. I remember a couple winters ago I visited my uncle up in Cleveland and he had all these humidifiers set up around his large apartment to protect his musical instruments, and he also had humidity monitors everywhere, and he was complaining that they gave such wildly inconsistent and irregular readings that he knew most of them were wrong most of the time. These weren't cheapo $5 things either, they were the $40 ones. (Granted they weren't the $300 ones either...) I'd guess whatever onboard monitors are on the humidifer are closer in kind to the cheapos.

 

[Billbill84]

Are you site what you're using to check humidity is measuring properly?

I believe they are, they're both about a year old and acurite brand. They always are within a few percent of each other here's a pic of upstairs meter and basement meter, respectively.

 

[Billbill84]

So I guess that means a good ol "ta hell if I know!" Lol.
My guy at work insists that it's all the hardwood flooring on the main level that's just delaying the humidity to increase because the house was initially so dry at 16% RH. It's been 2 weeks and we're up to 25% lol.
One question about my dude's wood theory; my floors don't necessarily absorb moisture because they are sealed on the top side with thick super high glossed poly so I wouldn't think that it's very porous. Who knows.

 

[BuzzLOL]

Your humidity is also escaping through outside walls/ceilings/foundations... and every time a door is opened...

 

[rokosz]

Any way you can tell how much water is being "vaporized"? I don't know how whole house Hs work - Can you set it to MAX? I'm trying to keep from scratching my skin away this winter - So I have a desktop cool-air humidifier in my (12x12) office. I leave it on low overnight, put it on high first thing in the morning, then dial it back when I sit down. Typically, 1st thing, its well less than 30%. By the time I sit down its 35%. Right now (530P) its 65deg. 38%, , 32deg 71% outside. I wish I could get 45%. I fill the tank about every day and a half, around 2 gallons. Where does it all go?
What I'm getting at is the humidity disperses pretty darn quickly. And like earlier folks said anything carpet, wood, doors open, normal air infiltrate will affect it. Got any bare/unfinished wood? Think about what it takes to kiln dry wood for construction and you wan it at 50, say. Any idea if the unit is sized right for your space/outside climate? What's under the main level? Conditioned/humidified space? any ceiling lights/cans? they'll likely chimney moist air through gaps up into the joists and...the underside of that wood floor (not to mention the subfloor.

 

[Billbill84]

Any way you can tell how much water is being "vaporized"? I don't know how whole house Hs work - Can you set it to MAX? I'm trying to keep from scratching my skin away this winter - So I have a desktop cool-air humidifier in my (12x12) office. I leave it on low overnight, put it on high first thing in the morning, then dial it back when I sit down. Typically, 1st thing, its well less than 30%. By the time I sit down its 35%. Right now (530P) its 65deg. 38%, , 32deg 71% outside. I wish I could get 45%. I fill the tank about every day and a half, around 2 gallons. Where does it all go?
What I'm getting at is the humidity disperses pretty darn quickly. And like earlier folks said anything carpet, wood, doors open, normal air infiltrate will affect it. Got any bare/unfinished wood? Think about what it takes to kiln dry wood for construction and you wan it at 50, say. Any idea if the unit is sized right for your space/outside climate? What's under the main level? Conditioned/humidified space? any ceiling lights/cans? they'll likely chimney moist air through gaps up into the joists and...the underside of that wood floor (not to mention the subfloor.

Hi, and thanks for your thoughts.
I'll try answering your questions in order. I'm not sure how to measure how much water in humidifier is being vaporized unless I did some experiments. After the first week of running the unit I became frustrated and cranked the humidistat to full and it's been there for about a week and a half or so with no great improvement (21-25%). I can however pull the humidifier's drain line out of the condensate pump (no floor drain) and can see water trickling out while the furnace is running. Maybe there's some blockage in the feed tube or valve? Water is also lightly trickling down the pad.
Yes, my furnace is in its own room down in the basement and the basement is fully finished with drywall walls and ceiling, except for in the small room that the furnace and water heater are in.
You asked about the lights? Yes I have about 16 can lights in the basement for lighting.

 

[68bucks]

I'll thrown out a word of caution for you here. I installed a whole house humidifier a few years ago. I was trying to maintain an RH of about 40-50%. My wife has serious sinus problems and the dry air really bugs her. Well I wound up with a bunch of moisture issues in my attic along with mold. I think it was partially a ventilation problem in the attic but we were dumping way too much water into the air and it manifested as a serious attic problem. I would proceed with caution. That moisture ends up in your unheated attic and condenses on the cold underside of your roof deck and you might end up in the same boat.

Maybe you coind measure the RH right at the heater duct. That would tell you what the furnace is putting out. From that you could calculate the amount of water added based on the RH of the air entering the furnace.

 

[Billbill84]

I'll thrown out a word of caution for you here. I installed a whole house humidifier a few years ago. I was trying to maintain an RH of about 40-50%. My wife has serious sinus problems and the dry air really bugs her. Well I wound up with a bunch of moisture issues in my attic along with mold. I think it was partially a ventilation problem in the attic but we were dumping way too much water into the air and it manifested as a serious attic problem. I would proceed with caution. That moisture ends up in your unheated attic and condenses on the cold underside of your roof deck and you might end up in the same boat.

Maybe you coind measure the RH right at the heater duct. That would tell you what the furnace is putting out. From that you could calculate the amount of water added based on the RH of the air entering the furnace.

Yes, thanks for the word of caution. I am aware of the potential damage humidifiers can cause aka attic rain, and other stuff. I planned to check everything out in the attic after I got the RH up to at least 30-35% but never got there because I can't achieve anything past 20-25% so that's where my investigation starts I guess. Both my hygrometers read the same low RH on all 3 levels of my house so I doubt anything above that is being achieved and leaching into the attic space.

 

[68bucks]

An RH of 25% will give you a dew point right around freezing. So if you have 70° F , 25% RH air entering your attic and the temp in the attic is about 32° F you are right about at that condensation point so it doesn't take a whole lot of moisture to start to be an issue. Here is a calculator I ran across.
Temperature, Dewpoint, and Relative Humidity Calculator

 

[Billbill84]

An RH of 25% will give you a dew point right around freezing. So if you have 70° F , 25% RH air entering your attic and the temp in the attic is about 32° F you are right about at that condensation point so it doesn't take a whole lot of moisture to start to be an issue. Here is a calculator I ran across.
Temperature, Dewpoint, and Relative Humidity Calculator

Awesome thanks for the calculator.

 

[Billbill84]

Update: I rebuilt the humidifier again and checked the strainer inside the solenoid valves orifice and had just a little bit of blockage that was removed by simply running under some water. I believe that the reason my homes humidity won't raise after 3 weeks of running the humidifier is due to possible low flow from the solenoid valve. I removed it and tried to blow in entry side to see if anything came out exit side and while doing this at same time I turned the humidistat knob up and heard the valve click, spit a tiny drop of water out and experienced less resistance when blowing thru the valve. It just seems that when it's all out together that's the flow down the pad is so weak just a couple drops it looks like and the whole pad is definitely not getting saturated enough. That solenoid valve is the only left that I didn't swap out. Thoughts?

 

[Jeff Handy]

You can also clean the area where the water is distributed on top of the pad.
Minerals build up on there, and the water might not be flowing all the way across.
Do not clean off the sandy coating, that is there to help pull the water into a wider pattern.
And change the pad every year.
Also, the water supply should be hot water, not cold.

 

[Billbill84]

You can also clean the area where the water is distributed on top of the pad.
Minerals build up on there, and the water might not be flowing all the way across.
Do not clean off the sandy coating, that is there to help pull the water into a wider pattern.
And change the pad every year.
Also, the water supply should be hot water, not cold.

Yeah I cleaned the entire thing even all the small channels of the distribution tray and I know about the evap pads clay coating. Pretty mechanically inclined lol. BUT I don't mess with copper pipes in anyway I refuse to solder because I respect the trade enough to know the importance of skill haha.
Are you saying that it was installed incorrectly? It is on the cold side which didn't really make sense to me when I first assessed the unit then I read that they are sometimes either one depending on the type of humidifier. Mine is a bypass or flow-through style on the return side with a take off duct.

 

[68bucks]

If yiu use hot water to supply it it evaporates more water. Is there a valve to adjust water flow to it? Sort of sounds like low flow. You don't want water gushing down the drain but you need enough flow to get water distributed over most of the pad. The system I installed and the one on my last place has a little petcock to turn the water off and adjust the flow. Maybe an issue there? Disconnect the line to the solenoid and flush it to a bucket. I'd think you should get a pretty good stream of water from the supply. Mine were always just copper tubing.

 

[Jeff Handy]

You have not stated what brand and model you have.
Is it AprilAire?
Is there a powered fan inside the unit?
Where is the orifice located?
Can you poke the orifice clean with a narrow piece of wire, or a very thin pin?