Who exactly installs tankless water heaters?

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jmr106

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I'm currently in savings mode for converting our tanked water heater in the crawlspace to a gas-fired tankless that would be placed on the outside of the house.

To my understanding, these do not require any electrical work, but need a new 3/4" gas pipe ran from the meter and of course the gas and water pipes need to be ran to the new location. I've come across a lot of plumbers who "won't mess with gas and get blown up." What the heck? I thought plumbers always put in water heaters?

Who exactly do you get to put in these tankless gas water heaters, and where do you buy them from? I have checked home improvement stores, and have also checked online. I would think that a lot of installers would be wary of - and may not even accept - some random unit purchased online. Just like the regular tanked water heaters, they want to know what they're putting in, where it is from, and have all accessories for it. To me, it is sort of like buying a part from x place and wanting a mechanic at a shop to put it on. 99% will tell you that they won't do it because they don't know anything about the part. So ordering online and such seems kind of iffy. Any advice on that?

Someone suggested to me that I get an HVAC person, since they install furnaces and deal with gas, electric and water in some cases.
 
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Should be concerned about structural integrity if they drill through the bricks anywhere for pipes and also when attaching it to the side of the house and have to drill through the brick to secure the water heater?
 
I don't that would be a problem but I would question the guy on how he does it. If it doesn't sound reasonable check back here maybe in masonry

images15.jpg
 
jmr106 said:
I'm currently in savings mode for converting our tanked water heater in the crawlspace to a gas-fired tankless that would be placed on the outside of the house.

To my understanding, these do not require any electrical work, but need a new 3/4" gas pipe ran from the meter and of course the gas and water pipes need to be ran to the new location. I've come across a lot of plumbers who "won't mess with gas and get blown up." What the heck? I thought plumbers always put in water heaters?

Who exactly do you get to put in these tankless gas water heaters, and where do you buy them from? I have checked home improvement stores, and have also checked online. I would think that a lot of installers would be wary of - and may not even accept - some random unit purchased online. Just like the regular tanked water heaters, they want to know what they're putting in, where it is from, and have all accessories for it. To me, it is sort of like buying a part from x place and wanting a mechanic at a shop to put it on. 99% will tell you that they won't do it because they don't know anything about the part. So ordering online and such seems kind of iffy. Any advice on that?

Someone suggested to me that I get an HVAC person, since they install furnaces and deal with gas, electric and water in some cases.
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Each of the mfg. listed will have a web site with a link to local installers;http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=tankless+water+heater+gas&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
 
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How large of a water heater should I consider getting for a 2 bedroom, 1 bath house? I have looked at some of the water flow charts and part of that stuff doesn't really apply to us. At most, there might be someone in the shower and the washing machine on (just warm water, which always feels cold regardless - probably just the washer settings). We don't have a dishwasher and prefer to hand wash everything, because most dishwashers that we have encountered do not work that well at cleaning.

Granted, in the future, someone may expand with another bedroom and bathroom after we eventually sell. So, I'd like to assume an extra bathroom and they'll probably add another bedroom at some point, which wouldn't need water of course. I'd like to have that already in place to be able to keep up. How large of a tank do I need to get? I see some up to 11GPM, 90% efficiency. It seems that they are less efficient when the GPM rating goes down and the unit gets a little smaller. Is there a particular reason for this?

Are some brands "better" than the others?

At most, the washing machine, shower and kitchen sink for a short time would be on at the same time. Usually we don't even use that much and do not do laundry when anyone is in the shower, even with a 40 gallon tanked water heater. Just because of the up-and-down pressure.
 
jmr106 said:
How large of a water heater should I consider getting for a 2 bedroom, 1 bath house? I have looked at some of the water flow charts and part of that stuff doesn't really apply to us. At most, there might be someone in the shower and the washing machine on (just warm water, which always feels cold regardless - probably just the washer settings). We don't have a dishwasher and prefer to hand wash everything, because most dishwashers that we have encountered do not work that well at cleaning.

Granted, in the future, someone may expand with another bedroom and bathroom after we eventually sell. So, I'd like to assume an extra bathroom and they'll probably add another bedroom at some point, which wouldn't need water of course. I'd like to have that already in place to be able to keep up. How large of a tank do I need to get? I see some up to 11GPM, 90% efficiency. It seems that they are less efficient when the GPM rating goes down and the unit gets a little smaller. Is there a particular reason for this?

Are some brands "better" than the others?

At most, the washing machine, shower and kitchen sink for a short time would be on at the same time. Usually we don't even use that much and do not do laundry when anyone is in the shower, even with a 40 gallon tanked water heater. Just because of the up-and-down pressure.
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In colder climate zones it is not uncommon for tankless systems to also have an incorporated, operating, storage system.

However, when you call for an estimate from those "listed" installers, pose the "eventuality" to them, because rather than a guess, that you get here, they will be standing in your dwelling.
 
It isn't really just the initial cost of the unit or size of it. I just don't want a $200 gas bill for overkill in estimating something like 3 bathrooms, kitchen sink, dishwasher, washing machine, shower, etc. I want it to be a bit future-proof for the new owners, but not a crazy gas bill in the meantime. I understand these to use way more gas. I assume that the large ones though more efficient....they must have a larger burner.l that use more gas.

Curiously, the large ones like 11GPM seem to boast a 80% to 90% efficiency rating. For whatever reason, the mid-sized ones like 6-8 GPM seem to be way less efficient and 60% to 70%.

Which is better?
 
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jmr106 said:
It isn't really just the initial cost of the unit or size of it. I just don't want a $200 gas bill for overkill in estimating something like 3 bathrooms, kitchen sink, dishwasher, washing machine, shower, etc. I want it to be a bit future-proof for the new owners, but not a crazy gas bill in the meantime. I understand these to use way more gas.
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Don't be fooled by the larger gas line, they do use more while they are being used but they are not maintaining a tank full of water for 24/7 so you would expect your bill to go down.
I would not size up for future owner, if they add to the house they would expect that upgrade too.

Realistically, there aren't many houses smaller than yours but the biggest thing to me is the number of people. As you already watch your use with showers and washing machines and the sort and the water in the ground will not as cold as it would be up north, the smaller unit would be close to working for you. With that said I would be looking at price point and move up from the bottom just enough to be sure, this will work
 
eccotemp, rheem, eemax brand names

natural gas, 1 bath, 3--4 gpm

outside flueless,

those are your search words.


some answers we cant answer for you, i have given you the search words for a 1 bath house

if you want it bigger, then you must choose. i would not put in a 3-4 gpm unit

i would opt for a bigger unit, but you said your gas bill is a concern.

6--8 gpm is what i would use for a 1 bath, if you decide to add on you can
 
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I think I'm going to go with an 8. This one looks pretty decent:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/8-4-GPM-...ankless-Gas-Water-Heater-ECO180XLN3/203213758

It appears to have its own heating system good down to -30F, not that it gets anywhere near that cold here. It apparently takes electricity...2amp, 120V in addition to the water and gas lines. I had been wondering about how it keeps from freezing over, just in case we are here for another winter (not planning to be). No doubt, the lines to and from it will need to be insulated pretty well.

Any thoughts on that one? It appears that the stupid rebate for $500 from the gas company only applies if you're switching from electric or propane to natural gas.

Home Depot seems to have a link to installation contractors that can do a same-day installation in some cases. That particular water heater isn't available in stores, so I guess I'll have to ask them how that would work with getting it installed. If they shipped it to the house or to my local store, would a contractor actually be willing to install it without having brought it themselves? It kind of reminds me of a lot of car mechanics that won't install new parts if you bring them. They want to get their own.
 
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I'm pondering going with a local company that is a little more focused...the number Home Depot has is one of those out of state numbers and isn't even local. Probably some Jim-Bob place that hires whoever.
 
jmr106 said:
Home Depot seems to have a link to installation contractors that can do a same-day installation in some cases. That particular water heater isn't available in stores, so I guess I'll have to ask them how that would work with getting it installed.

If they shipped it to the house or to my local store, would a contractor actually be willing to install it without having brought it themselves? It kind of reminds me of a lot of car mechanics that won't install new parts if you bring them. They want to get their own.
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The problem(s) with buying your own and hiring an installer is that you will have warranty from the manufacturer but may have to pay extra labor for warranty claims as the installer is not bound by the manufacturer's warranty unless the provision(s) of the warranty includes labor.

Same with auto repair. You bring in your own parts, they are wrong and the shop has a lift tied up for hours. It's like bringing your own bacon and eggs to a restaurant.
 
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