Kitchen or bathroom reno - best bang for buck.

When my parents retired back to PA after a 5 year stint in NJ they bought a 85 year old house and we proceeded to do major renovations every year for the first 5 or 6 years: 2 car garage, exterior remodel with a covered patio and enclosing an upstairs balcony into a Florida room, new kitchen (flipping the kitchen and dining room), renovations to the upstairs, living room and laundry room. Some of it was done DIY and some by professional builders. All told we put about $50K into the house that cost $50K when they bought it in 1985. After my mother passed we sold it for about $105K. Had we hung on to it for another 5 or 6 years we would have made a lot more money, but none of us wanted to live there. My brother and sister lived in the same town and had built new homes, I lived in NC and my other brother lived in CA.

That house did cure me of This Old House envy. I had wanted them to have an old family friend build them a new house in his subdivision. A nice ranch that would have met all of their needs would have cost about $100K at the time. When they were both gone I'm sure we would have more than recouped the investment without all the blood, sweat and tears involved in renovating the old house. I'm surprised their marriage of 45 years survived all the renovations.

Sparky617 said:

When my parents retired back to PA after a 5 year stint in NJ they bought a 85 year old house and we proceeded to do major renovations every year for the first 5 or 6 years: 2 car garage, exterior remodel with a covered patio and enclosing an upstairs balcony into a Florida room, new kitchen (flipping the kitchen and dining room), renovations to the upstairs, living room and laundry room. Some of it was done DIY and some by professional builders. All told we put about $50K into the house that cost $50K when they bought it in 1985. After my mother passed we sold it for about $105K. Had we hung on to it for another 5 or 6 years we would have made a lot more money, but none of us wanted to live there. My brother and sister lived in the same town and had built new homes, I lived in NC and my other brother lived in CA.

That house did cure me of This Old House envy. I had wanted them to have an old family friend build them a new house in his subdivision. A nice ranch that would have met all of their needs would have cost about $100K at the time. When they were both gone I'm sure we would have more than recouped the investment without all the blood, sweat and tears involved in renovating the old house. I'm surprised their marriage of 45 years survived all the renovations.

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I don't think that is the direction Swim is going. I think he has bought the bargain on the block. He could have bought the best but would likely have to take a second job to make the payments but now he has a good idea of what the house could be worth if he fixed a half dozen problem areas.

In Canada we don't deduct interest on the house and we don't pay tax on the increased value when we sell as long as we live in the house.

He might think of this work as entertainment, or a second job with out being taxed or just honing his skills.

I started out the same way, and I have also bought new but either way there was things to change. you know the changes you have to make to make a house a home. the problem is the money spent changing a new house is never returned while that older house always has increased value as long as the work you do is quality work.

I am doing the things that piss me off. The kitchen and bathroom piss me off. Not having a garage is pissing me off.

So, I am basically making myself happy and putting in things that will add value. I know a newer, cleaner kitchen and bathroom will make this place more desirable.

swimmer_spe said:

I am doing the things that piss me off. The kitchen and bathroom piss me off. Not having a garage is pissing me off.

So, I am basically making myself happy and putting in things that will add value. I know a newer, cleaner kitchen and bathroom will make this place more desirable.

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That makes sense to me. With that said and the one reno a year thing-- I think that unless the bathroom has leaking issues that will cause things to get worse, the kitchen would be the best starting point. But it depends on what pisses you off more. LOL.

I did like the layout and cabinets of the other kitchen you linked. It seems like a better design.
Do you live anywhere near stores that sell whole suites of cabinets/appliances? I've heard that if you buy last year's suites they are lower price. Also heard that if you live near a warehouse where they offload the stuff, that sometimes you can go directly to the warehouse and buy stuff wholesale. They show people doing that on shows like "Ten Grand in Your Hand" (showing how to get discounts on stuff).

And sometimes, if you can pick an item that Lowes / HD have in stock and find it online for cheaper (when it is the regular price on the other store) you can print it out or save the url and take it in to those stores and show them the lower price. Although, I think they may do that even if they have to ship the item to the store so long as the online store has it in stock. IIRC, if Lowes already has it in stock I think they do the lower price plus 10% off of that-- but it depends on the store manager-- some may refuse to do that.

I don't know if you're military or retired military, but Lowes has military discount. Home Depot has AARP discount. (I just now learned that and will drag my mother with me next time I go to HD).

Their reciprocal discounts are 10% of the price difference.IE, $1.00 difference =$.10, hardly pays for the fuel, let alone the time.

Snoonyb said:

Their reciprocal discounts are 10% of the price difference.IE, $1.00 difference =$.10, hardly pays for the fuel, let alone the time.

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I think it depends on how close he lives to the places-- if they are nearby it might be good. He would have to factor in tax vs shipping (unless tax + shipping is charged) and which is the lower price.
And there are some things that are better to pick up in the store so you can make sure they are not damaged vs having to get something in the mail and return it if it's damaged.
I just remembered he lives in Canada though, so the rules might be different for the stores there.

zannej said:

I think it depends on how close he lives to the places-- if they are nearby it might be good. He would have to factor in tax vs shipping (unless tax + shipping is charged) and which is the lower price.
And there are some things that are better to pick up in the store so you can make sure they are not damaged vs having to get something in the mail and return it if it's damaged.
I just remembered he lives in Canada though, so the rules might be different for the stores there.

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Out here and I think it is much the same where he is, there were a lot of houses built in the 70s that where all the same and people a changing kitchens more often than underwear, if he keeps an eye used building material or Graiglist he might find one that fits that's only a few years old.

It takes time too find the deal, that's why I suggested bathroom.

nealtw said:

Out here and I think it is much the same where he is, there were a lot of houses built in the 70s that where all the same and people a changing kitchens more often than underwear, if he keeps an eye used building material or Graiglist he might find one that fits that's only a few years old.

It takes time too find the deal, that's why I suggested bathroom.

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Good point. Of course with either reno he could probably start gathering the materials and stuff he will need over time before any demo starts. He can probably store some stuff in the garage.

zannej said:

Good point. Of course with either reno he could probably start gathering the materials and stuff he will need over time before any demo starts. He can probably store some stuff in the garage.

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He is still building the garage. For a bathroom the only real bargain he will find are deals on tile and maybe a tub. He has the sink and van already .

My garage should be closed in by the end of the month. Electrical, heating, siding, etc... who knows. Those all depend on budget, and electrical will be the biggie.

Right now, I could spend less than $100 and "fix" that which pisses me off. However, that will not look all that pretty.

I really want a working dishwasher. I could put in a built in one for a few hundred. However, the cladding will not match the rest of the kitchen.

So, in the end it come down to both rooms need to be done. The bathroom looks ugly. The kitchen is functional, but dated.

I could rip off the wood in the bathroom out and clean up that wall, and then throw some pain on the wall. That's about $100 as well..

They need to be one mainly due to cosmetic issues, not function issues.

swimmer_spe said:

My garage should be closed in by the end of the month. Electrical, heating, siding, etc... who knows. Those all depend on budget, and electrical will be the biggie.

Right now, I could spend less than $100 and "fix" that which pisses me off. However, that will not look all that pretty.

I really want a working dishwasher. I could put in a built in one for a few hundred. However, the cladding will not match the rest of the kitchen.

So, in the end it come down to both rooms need to be done. The bathroom looks ugly. The kitchen is functional, but dated.

I could rip off the wood in the bathroom out and clean up that wall, and then throw some pain on the wall. That's about $100 as well..

They need to be one mainly due to cosmetic issues, not function issues.

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When you do finish your garage, I'd love to see photos.

I get what you're saying about the fixes. I hope you can come to a decision on which one to fix first-- whichever one pisses you off the most. As for the dishwasher thing, it would be a lot more expensive, but they sell "custom panel" or "panel ready" dishwashers that let you put a cabinet face on them so they look like part of the cabinetry. Not sure if you want to spend that much though. Another option might be to keep a portable one and add another sink with a hookup for it and use the dishwasher as an island of sorts. That is pretty much what I do with mine.
http://www.bosch-home.com/us/produc...n-dishwashers/all-dishwashers/SHVM63W53N.html
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Whirlpoo...Steel-Tub-in-Panel-Ready-UDT555SAFP/207055770
http://www.sears.com/bosch-shvm63w5...SellerId=Sears&prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1
http://www.abt.com/product/69427/Bo...ice^c-plaid^310242048863-sku^69427-adType^PLA

zannej said:

When you do finish your garage, I'd love to see photos.

I get what you're saying about the fixes. I hope you can come to a decision on which one to fix first-- whichever one pisses you off the most. As for the dishwasher thing, it would be a lot more expensive, but they sell "custom panel" or "panel ready" dishwashers that let you put a cabinet face on them so they look like part of the cabinetry. Not sure if you want to spend that much though. Another option might be to keep a portable one and add another sink with a hookup for it and use the dishwasher as an island of sorts. That is pretty much what I do with mine.
http://www.bosch-home.com/us/produc...n-dishwashers/all-dishwashers/SHVM63W53N.html
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Whirlpoo...Steel-Tub-in-Panel-Ready-UDT555SAFP/207055770
http://www.sears.com/bosch-shvm63w5...SellerId=Sears&prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1
http://www.abt.com/product/69427/Bo...ice^c-plaid^310242048863-sku^69427-adType^PLA

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I know I can put a built in where I want it with a side cabinet for around $1000, including the hookups.
I do not have the room for another sink for the portable dishwasher.

A friend pointed something out to me.

Right now I am going to school and I receive a VA pension. While it pays the bills, it is nowhere near as much as what I will make once I am done school. So, if I hold off for the kitchen till after I am working, I will have much more money to do it right.

The bathroom I can easily do. I could go "all out", and still be able to afford to do while still in school.

So, I think as I get closer to doing something, it makes more sense to do the bathroom.

swimmer_spe said:

A friend pointed something out to me.

Right now I am going to school and I receive a VA pension. While it pays the bills, it is nowhere near as much as what I will make once I am done school. So, if I hold off for the kitchen till after I am working, I will have much more money to do it right.

The bathroom I can easily do. I could go "all out", and still be able to afford to do while still in school.

So, I think as I get closer to doing something, it makes more sense to do the bathroom.

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Ahh! That makes more sense. The kitchen has a lot more work needed. Bathroom is smaller and simpler so it would be the more economical starting point. I'd love to know what you have in mind for the reno on it.

Is your vanity able to be modified to have a hidden toekick drawer? Good place to store the bathroom scale or other things. And you might want to take advantage of between-the-stud storage if you end up opening any walls. Probably won't go that far-- it looks like (other than the tub/shower area) you just need to cover some holes, paint, and put in new flooring. I think some beadboard for the lower part of the wall would look nice (but that's my personal preference).

Do you have anything like bathfitters in your area where they can put a liner in your tub and cover the tile wall? I know tile cracks can be fixed, but am not an expert on how. I'm not a fan of tile. I don't like all of the grout lines. If you splurge a bit, maybe you could get large porcelain tiles or something.

And for behind the tiles, there are lightweight cementboard options available. Can't remember what it's called now. You might want to consider putting in some little in-shower cubbies if you take off the wall that the tile is on.

definitely the kitchen only reason it is just not functional, the bathroom may not be pretty but the layout at least works. I would do a mid price cabinet countertop to your liking rearrange stove and fridge and splurge on a working dishwasher. It will be worth every penny in the end. For the bath the tub can be reglazed if it is a cast iron tub then work on the rest as budget and time allows. Remember you never move until you have remodeled/redecorated every roomPost pics of before and after. Best of luck

the bathroom is more economical compare to the kitchen renovation as you will need a lot of things to do on your kitchen, based on the pics if I will be doing a renovation on your kitchen I will definitely add new countertop, cabinets, shelves and lightning to really uplift the your kitchen. if ever you opt for the kitchen reno please do not forget to add proper lightings and outlets.

Voldo said:

the bathroom is more economical compare to the kitchen renovation as you will need a lot of things to do on your kitchen, based on the pics if I will be doing a renovation on your kitchen I will definitely add new countertop, cabinets, shelves and lightning to really uplift the your kitchen. if ever you opt for the kitchen reno please do not forget to add proper lightings and outlets.

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The lighting is not an issue. I would change the plugs to GFCI, but there is plenty of them throughout the counter area.